La Marzocco Strada (VST) basket with Quickmill Alexia PID & Mazzer Super Jolly - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
wildbwilson
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#11: Post by wildbwilson »

My thought is if you're having troubles with your new $30 basket - ditch it, buy a $10 basket and see if you get the results you seek. I'm having a good chuckle that you're thinking the solution is buying a $1000+ grinder so the basket might work better. The success of marketing indeed.

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Peppersass
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#12: Post by Peppersass replying to wildbwilson »

I prefer the advice to try some other coffees in the Strada/VST basket and see how it goes. That's also much cheaper than buying a new grinder!

I'm also of the opinion that the extended WDT is causing more fines to migrate to the bottom of the basket. I don't know why this would make successive shots taste more consistent, but evidently it does.

Just to review, you weigh the dose and the shot, right? When you pull, are you targeting a particular shot weight, or are you cutting the shot by time, volume or blonding point? If you target a particular shot weight, does the pull always take the same number of seconds, or does it vary?

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tekomino
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#13: Post by tekomino »

I'd say dump the VST for that specific coffee. I have pound of Espresso Nuevo and VST baskets and they don't work well together. Nuevo is fairly dark blend and grinding it fine enough for VST does not produce pleasant espresso. Go with LM Ridged double basket or maybe this La Cimbali double.

Reserve VST for light roasted, acidly coffees where you need extra fine grind to get sweetness out...

mdmvrockford (original poster)
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#14: Post by mdmvrockford (original poster) »

wildbwilson wrote:My thought is if you're having troubles with your new $30 basket - ditch it, buy a $10 basket and see if you get the results you seek. I'm having a good chuckle that you're thinking the solution is buying a $1000+ grinder so the basket might work better. The success of marketing indeed.
To wildbwilson and others:
I guess I should avoid cuteness and should have been more clear in my earlier posts. I am very happy with my older filter baskets (one-double that came with the machine's portafilter and one-triple basket that Chris Coffee included with the bottomless Rancilio portafilter). I should have stated in my original post, I view the LM Strada basket as another tool in my "espresso arsenal". It is not my sole tool (i.e. not my sole basket nor was that ever the plan). As stated in my original post it is $30 so I though what the heck and I am giving it a try.

The likelihood of me buying another grinder is essentially nil (unless Bill Gates gives me $1mil). The dream/fantasy logic of buying another grinder was not at all related to the LM Strada/VST basket. It was so that I could consume two different style roasts during same week w/o having to change my Mazzer SJ grinder's micrometrical/stepless setting (which I have found to be often dramatic among different roaster blends as would be expected). I see from profile that many HB members have multiple grinders. Unfortunately for me (as stated in my profile), my other grinder is a doserless Rocky which I do not want to spend time using Teflon tape mod and stepless mods to. Boss uses it for drip coffee. So I realize I will have to just stick to one-at-a-time roasters' bean (with as needed minute adjustment if needed as that bean ages).

I thank tekomino, peppersass and mitch236 suggestions to change to acidic light roasted espresso blend.
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mdmvrockford (original poster)
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#15: Post by mdmvrockford (original poster) »

tekomino wrote:I'd say dump the VST for that specific coffee. I have pound of Espresso Nuevo and VST baskets and they don't work well together. Nuevo is fairly dark blend and grinding it fine enough for VST does not produce pleasant espresso. Go with LM Ridged double basket or maybe this La Cimbali double.

Reserve VST for light roasted, acidly coffees where you need extra fine grind to get sweetness out...
I will freely show I am a espresso newbie and go ahead to ask (i.e. newbie alert :oops: )--> Would you kindly list some roasters blends that have this "light roasted, acidly coffee"? The lightly roasted I see mentioned on most roasters's website descripion of each espresso. But I often do not see mention of acidity. Does light roast usually mean acidly or can they mutually exclusive?

Of course I'll call Mr. Meza at Paradise Roasters and ask for his recommendations for his stores offerings. But if you would kindly list for other roasters (e.g. which of Intelligentsia's, which of Espresso Vivace's, which of Counter Culture's etc.) That would really help me and other newbies/less developed palates. Thanks!

And sorry to cause this one thread drift in my own post?!
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mdmvrockford (original poster)
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#16: Post by mdmvrockford (original poster) »

Peppersass wrote: Just to review, you weigh the dose and the shot, right? When you pull, are you targeting a particular shot weight, or are you cutting the shot by time, volume or blonding point? If you target a particular shot weight, does the pull always take the same number of seconds, or does it vary?
Yes, I weigh ground beans and final extracted dose. Extraction is stopped based on blonding. I check then taste and if acceptable then I note the volume. Since I sometime have trouble telling blonding point I will also stop based on prior known extraction's volume that tasted good for me (it seems blonding point is not as straightforward When did this espresso extraction go blond? [video quiz]) . BUT the ultimate variable is taste. It seems to my taste (and remember my OP statement where I say my palate is not as refined as most HB members) that if I stop at same blonding then it is usually same volume and weight and usually same taste. Of course I could be more scientific and use refractometer but that is a subject of other threads Where does ExtractMoJo fit in?
LaDan wrote:Michael, I think you are inadvertently overdosing.

My experience with the Nuevo is that it is a "light, low density". In the 18g VST I would constantly fill 16.5 grams. That's 1.5g below the stated capacity on the basket. As are reference, with other 3 top tier espresso blands, I would constantly fill 18.2 - 18.5.

So, to use an unscientific language: the Nuevo is about 2g lighter than the others.

If you have 18g in your 17g Strada basket, you are 1g over (compared to mine). If it was me, it would have been full at 15.5g - 16g max.

I have a feeling that this is at least part of where your problem is.
Thanks for this tip. I will try it on the next extraction.
Also, 3 sec vs. 30 sec of WDT. I'm thinking (I might be wrong) that mixing that long will cause a second unwanted distribution: you will send the fines into the bottom and the coarse particles into the top, making a dense layer at the bottom and a porous layer at the top. I am not sure if it is good for the in the cup end result and for consistency.
This makes perfect sense but like I said in OP, I seem to get better consistency from this. Of course I could be getting a consistent bad thing (that my underdeveloped taste tells me is more pronouced but not in bad way). Much like consistently burn roast would give consistent taste.
Also, mutating. If you are doing a WDT, why is the need for mutating? Are you not trusting your WDT? I think you might be manipulating your puck way too much.
You mean nutating ? Nutation: how to do it right

As to why I nutate + WDT. It is not because I don't trust my WDT. It's simply because I thought it can't hurt. First change I'll try is your recommended decrease dose. Next change is remove the nutation.

Again thanks!
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LaDan
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#17: Post by LaDan »

Yes, Nutation. Auto correct gets me all the time. LOL!

For your other question:

Counter culture: Espresso Toscano, I had this a couple of weeks ago and it was very nice. Was prepared on a VST 18g basket. (I asked). http://my.counterculturecoffee.com/coff ... scano.html

Intelligentsia Black Cat.

49th Parallel: Epic. Same thing, the parameters they give is for VST 18g basket. (on their web site.

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RapidCoffee
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#18: Post by RapidCoffee »

LaDan wrote:Also, 3 sec vs. 30 sec of WDT. I'm thinking (I might be wrong) that mixing that long will cause a second unwanted distribution: you will send the fines into the bottom and the coarse particles into the top, making a dense layer at the bottom and a porous layer at the top.
This hypothesis surfaced shortly after I introduced the WDT. I'm not sure where it originated, but credit may be due to Mr. H-B himself (Dan Kehn). Size separation may occur when some particulate mixtures (e.g., sand and gravel) are stirred or shaken. Coffee grinds, however, are clumpy, oily, static-y, and irregular in shape, and such behavior seems highly unlikely. So let's be absolutely clear: there is no evidence whatsoever that stirring coffee grinds causes fines to migrate to the bottom of the puck.

Nonetheless, I see no benefit of extended puck manipulation. For a non-clumpy grind, I recommend only a brief WDT stir after dosing - just enough to ensure an even distribution
John

mdmvrockford (original poster)
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#19: Post by mdmvrockford (original poster) »

RapidCoffee,
I just sent you PM. I did not want to cause possible thread drift.

Sincerely,
mdmvrockford
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mdmvrockford (original poster)
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#20: Post by mdmvrockford (original poster) »

Thanks for the suggestions. For my own benefit and other newbies I will try the suggestions in above messages and hopefully correctly summarized below. I will try one suggestion at a time of course.
* decrease dose from 18 grams to 16 grams with the current bean Paradise Roasters Nuevo (doing this one first)
* in general with LM Strada/VST filter basket, use light roasted acid beans
* full Weiss distribution technique not likely to benefit from the doser-ed Super Jolly.
* for hopper-less Mazzer Super Jolly, use column of bean as suggested by mitch236 early post above (too bad I just can't move the grinder to center kitchen island and use it with its bean hopper. To make the grinder the centerpiece of the kitchen as we know espresso is supreme and the grinder is key equipment for making good espresso...jee some crazy comment from wife that would look weird :D )

I am still hoping there is someone on HB that has experience with LM Strada/VST filter baskets paired with non-commercial/non-titan level grinder (such as my Mazzer SJ) and non-commercial machine (like my Alexia with PID) . Any takers?
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