jordanborth wrote:Wanted to chime in and give props on the epic amount of detail in your posts. Your process sounds solid. Wishing you tasty extractions in the future!

Thanks. I'm routinely left wanting for relevant details when I read "What am I doing wrong?" posts so I make an effort to provide every relevant detail in the hopes of exactly the kind of engagement all of you have given to the topic.

If you're worried about finishing all the coffee, you could try freezing "1/2 the bag" of each into something close-fitting and airtight, like a small Mason jar.

I'm not familiar with Atomic, but I did find https://home.lamarzoccousa.com/september-roaster-22/ which may provide some hints, at least on a couple of their other coffees.

Roast levels are always a challenge to understand from words. George Howell now lists their Alchemy blend as "Dark", which I recall as a medium when I was trying out a Micra this past winter. On the other hand, some commodity coffees described as "medium" or even "blonde" are significantly darker, somewhere between what I consider dark and burnt.

Better gear tends to reveal more about the coffee. This can be a delight or a curse, depending on what you're working with. If the beans you are working with have splotches or a sheen of oil and you can't get a flavor profile you enjoy in the cup, you might try a blend roasted more towards medium. They tend to have less roast bitterness than darker roasts.

Chexxchexx wrote:For what it's worth, my process has consistently been as follows:

Just a thought, perhaps try a very simple process, similar to an italian barista:

Grind, Tap, Tamp. Nothing else.

Then pull the shot. See how that turns out as a starting point.

As chefs often observe, overhanding of ingredients can reduce the quality of the result.

I picked up two dozen Craig Lyn bean vaults so the beans will be kept relatively fresh and I'd surely try them in the freezer to see if they're freezer safe and have the desired effect.

I'll definitely check out that thread and will play around with various roasts. I'm okay hunting around while I try to find ones I like. I just don't have patience for paying for something that arrives already stale and essentially guarantees the output is undrinkable as espresso.

lagoon wrote:Just a thought, perhaps try a very simple process, similar to an italian barista:

Grind, Tap, Tamp. Nothing else.

Never even occurred to me. Definitely worth a shot once I get the fresh beans delivered. Thanks for broadening my field of view.

So the question I have at this point is:
In more capable hands, could quality beans that are seven weeks old make a passable shot or is sweetness the first casualty of oxidation?

I nailed sour and bitter but never once had even the slightest hint of a well-rounded, pleasant shot. The LMLu is sitting idle because it feels like a fool's errand to keep pulling shots.

Totally depends on the beans.

I have had magnificent "zombie shots" of coffee that is many months old, but this is typically really light stuff that takes ages to rest and stays good for even longer.


First bit of advice I have for you, which I haven't noted being suggested yet, so apologies if I'm late to the party, but...

Do you like espresso?

I suggest going to a shop where you can try a straight shot of espresso on their equipment. Doesn't really matter where. Do you like what they serve you? If so, ask nicely to purchase some of their beans. Even if it is simply a fiver dripped in the tip jar for a hundred grams or so scooped out of the hopper. Take it home, mimic their shot. Maybe there is something wrong with your grinder, but I kinda doubt it.

If you don't like it, you may not like espresso, but, for the sake of continued education, find another shop, and another and continue until you find a source of beans that you can verify you actually like as espresso, and take some home with you.

Espresso is intense and concentrated and absolutely hammers your tastebuds and olfactory with inputs that are a 12 on a scale of 1 to 10. It is absolutely an acquired taste, so make sure you like what you are trying to make.

You've mentioned that the micra makes tasty cappuccinos, maybe drink them? Enjoy them. Continue to try things, but before you condemn your skills or the capabilities of your equipment, figure out what you are looking for in a shot of espresso by actually finding it. Folks here will talk of snickers bar and baker's chocolate, figs, leather, florals, structure, balance juicy acidity, lingering sweetness and such. But all of these quantifiers are in the context of "espresso that emphasizes..." if the espresso part makes you gag, you're never going to find the nuances of flavor buried in the layers that unfold as you sip the espresso.

Sorry for the long rant, but start with something you are certain you enjoy and want to replicate. If you are trying to make espresso onto something it is not, you will be perpetually disappointed.

Cheers!

- Jake

Jake_G wrote:Do you like espresso?

I suggest going to a shop where you can try a straight shot of espresso on their equipment.

Excellent question and recommendation. Thank you for the color. You've really got me thinking.

I'd say I appreciate espresso, but definitely prefer milk drinks. So, unquestionably, when I get this thing dialed-in, 99% of the time my personal drinks will have some amount of steamed milk, but likely in a lower ratio and probably not as foamy as the typical cappuccino. The three things that appeal to me about having a machine at home are convenience, full control over the raw material inputs, and the ability to experiment, at will. That last one makes me sound like a tinkerer which I'm not and that's why the LMLu appealed to me. I want to be able to dial-in the recipe (knowing the sweet spot will change as the beans age and, clearly, from one roast to another) and then enjoy it, perhaps with different amounts and degrees of steamed milk. Fiddling around with flow control doesn't appeal to me...at least not at this stage. I'd rather spend time sitting and enjoying the beverage than experimenting endlessly to wring another 2% enjoyment out of it.

Back to the original question. My son loves coffee and espresso is right up his alley. He's worked as a barista at Starbucks and a lower volume, higher quality local shop and he frequents other local establishments. He made the same faces I did when we pulled the shots so, even if it's not my preference, I truly don't think it's our collective incompatibility with espresso. The only times our opinions diverged were one thinking a shot was sour while the other one felt it was bitter...zero daylight between us, though, in terms of the shots being objectively awful. I also really don't think it's the specific roast I tried (not counting the first) because, though it was just a pour-over I had as reference, it was quite good and I welcomed it in a concentrated form. But seven weeks, post-roast may have doomed it from the start. Still, though, I acknowledge it's possible it's more suitable for one brew method over another. And I can't disagree it's curious I enjoyed the cappuccino when the espresso elicited such an averse reaction. That points to the possibility that, especially when I have this degree of control, straight espresso shots may just not be something I'm inclined to tolerate. Food for thought and something I'm going to discuss with my son when he wakes up.

I'll definitely be trying shots at more places so I can bring beans home and replicate their output. In fact, that's exactly what I tried to do yesterday at a local roaster's shop, but of course they were closed despite not posting it on their website. I'll surely report back once I've had a chance to try the two Atomic brews that will be in the mail on Tuesday, most likely.

StoicDude wrote:For me the gradual progression from milk and syrup flavored drinks, to milk only, to machiatos with half and half because I didn't like the milk sugars to straight espresso is what worked.

My suggestion to you is to still stick with it with the great machine, but taste the shots and dilute with milk if not palatable. I wouldn't chase that perfect shot in one day and throw away 20 shots. Maybe make 2 -4 a day, taste it and then if not to your liking straight, dilute with milk or water.

I think your taste buds will change and you will have a better understanding and tolerance in a few months.

This makes a lot of sense. Having had a day of rest and time to reflect, while I still think every single shot of espresso I pulled was bad, it's certain there must've been some positive aspects I failed to acknowledge. There were hints of nuanced flavors in shots as we got closer to the range of 13 in 26 out in 25-30 seconds (and, later, 17 in 34 out in 25-30 seconds), but they were always overpowered by the unpleasantness surrounding them...like a field of flowers in the middle of a war zone. I was hoping for, if not expecting, a shot that tamed those off-putting sensations I was getting further out at the extremes (under- and over-extracted). A bit of that promised "sweetness" isn't too much to ask. Fingers are crossed for the freshly roasted beans.

As you recommended, I think I'll make a few shots today, choose the best recipe, and try it, not as a cappuccino, but rather a macchiato. If that little bit of steamed milk makes the shot fully tolerable, the shot can't be that bad. Then it would seem the solution would be to search for a blend I like as an espresso. And, frankly, even if I don't find one, as long as I'm enjoying the milk drinks, I'll have no regrets.