GRB wrote:I am just asking if there is any real evidence for these claims. I am not calling them nonsense. Afterall, the reviews of machines that H-B posts on this site follow a more or less scientific or objective model - and so do most of the other forum discussions - as far as I can see. So what is the big deal with calling for some evidence when subjective claims are made?

If we're still talking about LM baskets versus Faema baskets (for example), then it won't take long to convince yourself there's a difference, the visual qualities of the extractions being the most evident. With due respect to Chris' well-studied opinion, it's of course his opinion that one tastes better to him and thus subjective.

luca wrote:At home I tend to use the LM (mega-ridged) double for coffee that's a few days old to keep the pour from speeding up too much.

Ah yes! As Jim suggested, I use Faema-style baskets for ristrettos and LM for true doubles, but you raise a good point. Next time the beans are getting tired, I'll try switching baskets.

taste it for yourself.

if a basket can get me more crema, im in!
it makes sense that a more cylindrical design would give more crema since the coffee isnt channeled down onto itself, almost like being forced to extract more than it should.

in any event, i have to start my first post off with a newbie question!
i thought the ridges were tamp lines in my giotto P. they arent? when i tamp to the ridge, i get a perfect looking puck after the shot, and only a bit of grinds on the screen..

LeoZ wrote:if a basket can get me more crema, im in!

Eh? Chris' assertion was about taste, not crema volume. I like a goodly amount of crema as much as the next guy, but it's not on my list of difficult problems to solve.

LeoZ wrote:i thought the ridges were tamp lines in my giotto P.

It's a handy reference point, but the ridge's purpose is to give the portafilter retainer clip something to grab onto.

HB wrote:Eh? Chris' assertion was about taste, not crema volume. I like a goodly amount of crema as much as the next guy, but it's not on my list of difficult problems to solve.

this sounded to me like more consistent crema. no, it isnt necessarily as much of a problem to achieve as other variables, but it certainly cant hurt to improve on it!

another_jim wrote:In any case, it doesn't take a double blind testing, since the difference is quite visible: LM baskets tend to start with a lighter flow, that stays nearly the same color throughout the shot; whereas Cimbali and Faema baskets tend to start very dark and lighten more. This is why many people prefer the LM for normales and the other two for ristretto shots. In barista competition, where even colored crema and normale shots are a must, LM baskets definitely will give the competitor an edge. This is also true when making beauty pictures of espresso shots or extractions.

I can pull 90% crema shots from my Faema, Isomac and Gaggia lever machine. While the appearance of the crema is an indicator of how well you ground, tamped, timed the shot, it is not necessarily an indicator of good flavor.

Crema is more a function of the beans freshness. I have had incredible looking shots that tasted like the pith from a lemon peel. I have also had modestly crema laden shots that had a wonderful flavor. Crema is a good indicator of the shot quality, but crema alone is not the final judge of taste.

cannonfodder wrote:Crema is more a function of the beans freshness.

more crema = fresher beans? i also find i get less crema with decaf beans. i think thats typical, right?

GRB wrote:I must say that I had thought it was the American tendency to be polite.

Hey! Us Canadians that have the world monopoly on polite! We don't have much else, so don't take that from us!

Take a holidays to the states...you'll soon realize that "politeness" is not a "tendency" in America (to broadly over-generalise). Confident, loud, proud, patriotic....yes. Polite...No!

Grant

having married a canadian girl, ill partially agree with you. americans can be polite when they arent apathetic about their job (man i hate that). when you do find politeness, it isnt as 'soft' as it is in canada. its there, just more direct.

LeoZ wrote:more crema = fresher beans? i also find i get less crema with decaf beans. i think thats typical, right?

I do not do decaf, but I believe your observation is correct. Decaf beans (in the green) go bad faster as well. A fair amount of damage is done to the bean in the decaffeination process.