La Cimbali M32 vs S/1 Junior - Pulling shots

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.

#1: Post by F9zSlavik »

Thanks to this forum, I was finally able to fully perfect shots on my M32! So thank you.
That being said, is it possible to pull similar shots on a S/1 Junior as the M32? I have an M32 at my house which I plan on using for my business. It will obviously be moving away once I have the location (hoping sooner than later) for me to set up shop. But while I still have it, I have manage to perfect pulling shots on it. 18.5 grams between 27 and 30 seconds. The shot comes out beautifully, right level of sweetness and bitterness. I tried doing a similar shot on the JR, results were almost identical, closer to 23-25 seconds, which means it SHOULD come out sweeter, but it does not. It is VERY bitter, very overly extracted. Which I don't understand. How is it more bitter if its under 25 seconds? My GF suggested I use a different formula, so I thought making using the formula the European uses. I know here in the states, the standard amount of coffee is 18. So I thought, why not try 14 grams at a much finder grind size. But before I start wasting coffee though lol I wanted to see if anyone else has had a similar experience. I am wondering if I am going to have a similar experience on my Ellimatic.

Thank you in advance.

F9zSlavik (original poster)

#2: Post by F9zSlavik (original poster) »

Incase anyone is wondering, I used a cimbali grinder, went with a finer grind, inserted 14g, extraction 28g @ 27 seconds. It was definitely closer to what I normally get out of my M32, you can smell the sweetness and the bitterness indicating a good balance.

I'm still unsure if I am on the right path but definitely feeling better about it

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#3: Post by kris772 »

When I had a couple Cimbali Juniors a decade or so ago, I found they would pull a fine shot only after they had warmed up for a couple hours. Also, expect pre-shot flushing to be different from the M32. Then just experiment! I personally would stick with 18g, but YMMV. They are nice machines, but a bit of a breed unto themselves.
Life is too short for bad espresso! - Thunk-ed, NOT stirred!

F9zSlavik (original poster)

#4: Post by F9zSlavik (original poster) »

I can't really explain the bitterness of the shot @ 18 grams. When it pulls, it comes out beautiful, thick crema I mean, fantastic. But you taste it and it taste like crap. It makes absolutely no sense. How can it be over extracted if its under 30 seconds? I don't mind the 14 grams, in the end I save coffee but still very confused. I am going to see if I can get it to 16 grams.

I have a 2nd Junior that I am in the process of fixing. I think the solenoid is stuck. Once I fix that, I will attempt to pull a similar shot and see how that comes out. I think its a newer model since it has "quality of life" upgrade.

I will also be getting a portafilter this thursday for my Ellimatic, super looking forward to see how that pulls a shot.

But yeah the Jr definitely has it quirks. You really have to know this unit.

F9zSlavik (original poster)

#5: Post by F9zSlavik (original poster) »

It just occurred to me, could the pressure has something to do with the shot pulling so bitter at 18 grams? Does it need to be decreased or increased? Is there a way to do that on a Jr?

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#6: Post by kris772 »

Yes, was going to suggest longer flush before pulling shot. If that helps, lower pressure a tad.

A dance that I have the most success with comes from Dan's short video on flushing - Flush excess steam, grind and dose, flush a tad (this is where you can adjust for temperature), then pull, or in my case pre-infuse 3sec on/6sec off then pull and count from start of real drip. Since my E61 days, I tend to run machines a tad hot so I can adjust it here, rather than always trying to avoid the sour of a too-low temp.
Life is too short for bad espresso! - Thunk-ed, NOT stirred!