Italian vs. American dosing - Page 4

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
Fisher

Postby Fisher » Jan 19, 2019, 6:02 am

dominico wrote:I'll add
Kimbo Superior (the blend used in the Autogrill all across central and northern Italy)
https://www.espressozone.com/kimbo-supe ... ans-2-2-lb

Other ones I enjoy are Miscela d'Oro

One I've been playing with lately which I find rather forgiving is Segafredo Intermezzo


I've never been a fan of Autogrill fare...always avoided it.... but now I am curious to try your recommendation. Maybe the espresso is where they shine?

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dominico
Team HB

Postby dominico » replying to Fisher » Jan 21, 2019, 1:10 am

Kimbo is the supplier of the coffee (and equipment) to the Autogrills, other than that they aren't really affiliated. I've had some great coffee at Autogrills, lots of mediocre shots, and a few awful ones, all with the same beans.
I can make consistently good ristrettos with it on my equipment. The trick with Italian coffee is that it stales quickly if exposed to air, so you want to keep air from getting to it as much as possible. This can be especially tricky with the kilo bags they tend to come in.
Once I open a bag I divide it immediately into mason jars where each mason jar holds about 3 days worth of coffee, and freeze the stuff I'm not immediately using.

I'll also add that Kimbo makes a lot of blends, most of them I don't like. The two that I know I enjoy Superior, and Top Flavour, I generally go for Superior.
http://bit.ly/29dgjDW
Il caffè è un piacere, se non è buono che piacere è?

mathof

Postby mathof » Jan 21, 2019, 7:00 am

dominico wrote:I'll also add that Kimbo makes a lot of blends, most of them I don't like. The two that I know I enjoy Superior, and Top Flavour, I generally go for Superior.


I've had good results with Kimbo Gold, which is 100% arabica.

Fisher

Postby Fisher » Jan 26, 2019, 2:38 pm

dominico wrote:Kimbo is the supplier of the coffee (and equipment) to the Autogrills, other than that they aren't really affiliated. I've had some great coffee at Autogrills, lots of mediocre shots, and a few awful ones, all with the same beans.
I can make consistently good ristrettos with it on my equipment. The trick with Italian coffee is that it stales quickly if exposed to air, so you want to keep air from getting to it as much as possible. This can be especially tricky with the kilo bags they tend to come in.
Once I open a bag I divide it immediately into mason jars where each mason jar holds about 3 days worth of coffee, and freeze the stuff I'm not immediately using.

I'll also add that Kimbo makes a lot of blends, most of them I don't like. The two that I know I enjoy Superior, and Top Flavour, I generally go for Superior.


You've convinced me! Thanks for the recommendations. (I am also a fan of freezing the beans... and grinding still-frozen beans for espresso.)

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IamOiman

Postby IamOiman » Jan 26, 2019, 11:02 pm

I swear Autogrill has a monopoly on the Autostrada, with only Sarni being a close competitor. :shock:

My only criticism I can say with Kimbo is that it can be a little too dark sometimes, even for me. Of all the Neapolitan torrefazione companies of significant size, Kimbo usually is the darkest. This may not be a detraction if you prefer that, however.
-Ryan
I'll throw my portafilter in the ring
LMWDP #612

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Moka 1 Cup

Postby Moka 1 Cup » Feb 06, 2019, 12:23 pm

ceoloide wrote:Hello All,
....
....
I also need to dispel a myth about the fact that Italian coffee is always good wherever you have it in Italy. Unfortunately, an Italian knows that most coffee shops can't make good coffee and most restaurants can't as well. There are simply so many coffee shops that finding a decent / good one is easy......


I really enjoyed your post. It is spot on.

I would like to add that at home semiautomatic espresso machines are not very common. Automatic machines and 'cialda' are becoming more popular, but the majority of Italians still make their own caffè with the the moka.
So whatever they get at the bar is going to be good by default :D ?
four minutes to make an espresso? really?

nuketopia

Postby nuketopia » Feb 06, 2019, 5:06 pm

ceoloide wrote:Hello All,

I'm new to the forum and this is my first post, couldn't resist chiming in on an Italian vs American coffee discussion!

I'm Italian and have been raised in northern Italy by a southern Italian family. I have been living in the USA for 2 years now, and have visited my local NJ family plenty of times before, so I have a good view of the differences between American and Italian coffee. Finally, I had basic training as a barista, so I can speak with some professional knowledge.
( excellent quote snipped short )
Marco



Hi Marco, I couldn't agree more. I've spent considerable time in Italy on business. Everything you said is spot on, each city and region is a culture unto itself.

The overall take-away from my travels is that espresso is simply a commodity drink in Italy. It's done economically and quickly and in many, if not all cities, the price of a coffee is regulated to a Euro or so. Maybe a bit more in tourist areas. Even if it wasn't regulated, I'd guess most Italians would be offended by a higher price.

Weirdly, I've had terrible coffee in expensive high class bars and restaurants in Italy, and had really good shots at highway stops and train stations. It is just kinda random. Cappuccino is common at breakfast time, latte's are for children, lol. Any time after breakfast, it's pretty much shots or a machiatto - albeit grudgingly prepared if the bar doesn't have milk out at the time.

As far as espresso goes, 7g single baskets and 14g doubles, and frequently, if you ask for a single they'll make a double and set aside or dump the second half.

Tamping these days is generally done against a fixed plastic tool stuck on the grinder, not much pressure, just a quick mash it down. Sometimes, I've seen not at all. Just jam it in the brewhead all loose.

The hotel Aldrovandi Villa Borghese had some of the best coffee at breakfast I've had in Italy. I also really liked some of the places the locals took us for coffee in Torino.

The worst coffee seems to be in the tourist areas around Rome. Bitter and unpleasant, I'd figure cheapest possible coffee is used.

Crotonmark

Postby Crotonmark » Feb 11, 2019, 8:01 pm

Love this discussion
I use 14 g for 28g coffee. I use only Italian beans or espresso vivace
I use an Olympia Cremina and this is my question
I find that the espresso doesn't come out of the spouts of the portafilter evenly
As weird as that sounds it's true
I'd like to make two using the double basket but they'd be uneven
Any suggestions.
Also I think third wave espresso is awful. That fruity flavor taste is like bad tannic wine. Yuck
Give me a coffee at an auto grill anytime

cafederoberto

Postby cafederoberto » Feb 12, 2019, 11:48 pm

Was just in Northern Italy in January and can confirm much smaller espresso doses but also something closer to ~3:1 brew ratios. Most places do either 7g doses or split one 14 g dose into 2 ~25ml demitasses. A couple interesting things I witnessed - one specialty place in Milan called Cafe Pascucci actually did 7g doses for single shots, but they flipped the tamper upside down and actually tamped the dose with the handle! Never seen that before! Also, I'd say close to 95% of the places in northern Italy all pre-grind the coffee into the dosers. How long it sits in there? I'd guess at least 30 mins to an hr or more depending on how busy the place is.

There was one caffe I hit in Modena called La Messicana Torrefazione that pre-ground all their coffee into the doser. But it actually tasted really good when he pulled the shot - like excellent actually! One was a single origina Guatemalan and the other was a "chocolate" Brazilian. Roast must have been fresh for it to taste that great having been pre-ground like that...

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Moka 1 Cup

Postby Moka 1 Cup » Feb 13, 2019, 8:20 am

cafederoberto wrote:lso, I'd say close to 95% of the places in northern Italy all pre-grind the coffee into the dosers. How long it sits in there? I'd guess at least 30 mins to an hr or more depending on how busy the place is....
......
.....,
Roast must have been fresh for it to taste that great having been pre-ground like that...

I have a question. How much of the coffee that sits
in the doser gets actually significantly exposed to air?
four minutes to make an espresso? really?