Italian vs. American dosing - Page 3

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
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Almico
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#21: Post by Almico »

I love this thread!

I am a home-schooled (HB) barista and coffee roaster who decided to open an Italian style coffee bar in a fairly high profile American location. No major bruises or blood lost yet. It's been almost 9 months and we're just hitting the busy tourist season.

I serve proper <6 oz cappuccinos, preferably in ceramic cups. I do not serve espresso in paper cups to go. Some people give me the stink eye, but I'm able to convince most that it's a much better idea to stop running for a minute and enjoy a coffee, either standing at the bar or sitting along side it, taking in the scenery. Most thank me. The ones that don't are not my customers.

I use an tradition Italian lever espresso machine, 15g baskets, 16g doses. I'd go to 14g, but I serve a lot of hot and iced Americanos and I need the extra coffee. I wasn't sure about the 50ml, so I just tried a double and made a little vid:
After the crema settles, it appears I have a 50ml double.

Mario, if you ever find yourself in New Hope, PA, stop by my bar. I'd love some feedback on my coffee!
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SiempreTuParceroMike

#22: Post by SiempreTuParceroMike »

another_jim wrote:I also like the change of extraction timing, measuring from the first drop. Given the huge differences in preinfusion times, this is a good change.
Thanks so much for that. I start my timer at first drop and always wonder, based on what I've read at HB, if I'm doing something wrong. I need to trust in the taste!
much less newbie than before, but still a newbie

www.michaelckregler.com

Fisher

#23: Post by Fisher »

ceoloide wrote:Hello All,

I'm new to the forum and this is my first post, couldn't resist chiming in on an Italian vs American coffee discussion!...
I am more than happy to answer any curiosity people might have.

Marco
Hi, I'm really enjoying reading the posts about Italian espresso... (and it is the style of espresso my tastebuds prefer).
A question regarding etymology....
I'm curious to know what word Italians used (historically) when referring to what we now commonly call the coffee "puck"? Did they have a word or term for the espresso puck... the cake of compressed coffee?

ceoloide

#24: Post by ceoloide »

Fisher wrote:I'm curious to know what word Italians used (historically) when referring to what we now commonly call the coffee "puck"? Did they have a word or term for the espresso puck... the cake of compressed coffee?
I'm not aware of a technical name for the coffee "puck" / "cake". Some of the terms I've heard the most are "panetto", "pastiglia", or"pannello", but I'd guess the name for it could change depending on region or dialects.

If you want a more official mention, "pannello" is used in the National Italian Coffee Institute guides and prospects.

I do not know what the name was, historically speaking. But do consider that Italian espresso is rather recent: ~1903-1905 for the first portafilter, and 1946 for the first lever / high pressure machine. I'd venture out to say that the name shouldn't have changed much from then.

Marco

Fisher

#25: Post by Fisher »

Thanks for the information!
I can only assume the word "puck" is used in North America due to its resemblance to the "hockey puck"... so I was curious about what it was called in the days before hockey was known world-wide. The term "panello" would be it then!

mgwolf
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#26: Post by mgwolf »

A very interesting thread which I missed last summer. Marco, do you know any Italian coffee brands available in this country that you would recommend? I've tried a few that I didn't care for (and were frequently stale).

Fisher

#27: Post by Fisher »

I'd also be interested in some recommendations to try!

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IamOiman
Team HB

#28: Post by IamOiman »

mgwolf wrote:A very interesting thread which I missed last summer. Marco, do you know any Italian coffee brands available in this country that you would recommend? I've tried a few that I didn't care for (and were frequently stale).
I may not be Marco, but I currently live in Italy and study in MA. I have AICAF Barista certification as well. I know roasts that I would consider Neapolitan that are available for purchase in the US (you can also order from some companies directly). Much of this info comes from this thread here:

Espresso Napoletano and Thoughts

Many of these roasts are mixes of Robusta and Arabica, and many can be purchased in the US.

Italian Coffee Brands and Mixes I like that have Robusta :D

Saka Caffe Classic Bar - the mix used with my barista training. This is the classic Neapolitan taste of Vanilla, Nuts, Caramel, and Chocolate when properly extracted and has a nice and thick body. It is paletable without sugar but I highly recommend adding a little for full flavor.

Saka Gran Bar - for those who may not find that much robusta to be appealing but are still interested. This is an 80% A 20% R mix with similar notes but is more balanced against the Robusta. If you do not like Robusta I suggest starting with this mix

Passalacqua Mehari- Another espresso company that I highly recommend is Passalacqua, also based in Naples. This 55% A 45% R mix that has similar notes to Classic Bar but has a little fruitiness and sweetness mixed in (I have not figured out the fruit flavor yet but it is very nice). It has a ton of creme as well and is full bodied

Passalacqua Mekico/Mekico Plus- For those who need a little more arabica, this is an 75% A 25% R mix that is similar to Mehari but has more intense flavors in Caramel and Chocolate and less fruit. Crema is a little less but is still highly recommeneded.

Toraldo Linea Rossa 20 - Coming from my favorite bar in Naples (Caffè Ciorfito), this 85% A 15% R is a dark Neapolitan roast that is probably the darkest of all the options said so far. If you like dark a robusta (at least a little) you will love this roast. Super thick crema and a medium body, it is similar to classic bar saka but a darker.

These are roasts I have tried and can confidently describe well. I have others but cannot form conclusions that I would safely be able to describe yet.

A brief list of 100% A roasts I can recommend

Passalacqua Harem (Best of Best imo)
Passalacqua Moana (Darkest roast I have tried that I enjoyed and considered good)
Kimbo Gold (cheapest one but still pretty decent)
Kenon Super Max Bar (For those looking for super caramel taste)

The issue with some of these roasts is it may be difficult to obtain single bags, as most of them are being sold to bars that buy in bulk. If this is the case the smallest lot you can buy is 6kg!!!
-Ryan
Using a spice grinder violates the Geneva Convention
LMWDP #612

Fisher

#29: Post by Fisher »

Great information, & thanks for posting the earlier link too! I hope to read more in this vein. :D

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dominico
Team HB

#30: Post by dominico »

I'll add
Kimbo Superior (the blend used in the Autogrill all across central and northern Italy)
https://www.espressozone.com/kimbo-supe ... ans-2-2-lb

Other ones I enjoy are Miscela d'Oro

One I've been playing with lately which I find rather forgiving is Segafredo Intermezzo
http://bit.ly/29dgjDW
Il caffè è un piacere, se non è buono che piacere è?