Is There A New Espresso? - Page 4

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
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boar_d_laze

Postby boar_d_laze » Oct 09, 2011, 8:57 pm

asicign wrote:Are coffee grounds particles or waves? and do they switch during a shot?

This is in response to my "plasma" question, and all I can say is that I really put my foot in it.

Talk about your non-standard usages. What I meant was that if the puck was neither solid, liquid, or solids depended in liquids... yadda yadda. But not only was that twisting any actual meaning of "plasma," that's not a very good question either.

The basket contains a compacted, but deteriorating mass of particulate solids with hot water flowing through it at some given or variable pressure and at some variable or given rate, resulting in a suspension. But so what? Not a great question.

BDL
Drop a nickel in the pot Joe. Takin' it slow. Waiter, waiter, percolator

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another_jim
Team HB

Postby another_jim » Oct 09, 2011, 10:09 pm

Gerry wrote:From the comments of the lever mavens ... it appears that the new espresso is really the old espresso from good lever machines ... I seem to be missing something


There was no good espresso in the 1950s -- the grinders were bad and the coffees were worse. If there actually were "good lever machines" with stable temperatures and properly calibrated springs, nobody would have noticed.

The new espresso is evolving from a series of accidental changes to the way espresso is made, and from people selecting equipment and coffees that equally accidentally happen to work with these accidental changes. People using levers today are not making 1950s style espresso; if they ever did they'd be running to the sinks and washing out their mouths. Instead, they are using jury-rigged gear to make their version of the new espresso. Their romantic denial about this simple fact does not change its truth.

The point of this post is that the state of the art is moving away from taking advantage of accidents to actually designing gear to work with the new style.
Jim Schulman

asicign

Postby asicign » Oct 10, 2011, 12:04 pm

The basket contains a compacted, but deteriorating mass of particulate solids with hot water flowing through it at some given or variable pressure and at some variable or given rate, resulting in a suspension


The question I was trying to ask in my last post is: Does a pressure profile have any effect on the puck/suspension/liquid other than the rate of flow? i.e. Does pressure have any impact on how quickly solubles enter solution, or which compounds enter into solution? I wouldn't think so, but maybe someone has done the experiment.

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Bluecold

Postby Bluecold » Oct 10, 2011, 12:24 pm

another_jim wrote:There was no good espresso in the 1950s -- the grinders were bad

Were they?
Since at least 1962, grinders with the 68mm conical burrset existed. That's just 3 years away from the fifties.
LMWDP #232
"Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death I Shall Fear No Evil For I am at 80,000 Feet and Climbing."

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boar_d_laze

Postby boar_d_laze » Oct 10, 2011, 12:34 pm

asicign wrote:The question I was trying to ask in my last post is: Does a pressure profile have any effect on the puck/suspension/liquid other than the rate of flow? i.e. Does pressure have any impact on how quickly solubles enter solution, or which compounds enter into solution? I wouldn't think so, but maybe someone has done the experiment.


You're asking the good questions, or so it seems to me.

BDL
Drop a nickel in the pot Joe. Takin' it slow. Waiter, waiter, percolator

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Marshall

Postby Marshall » Oct 10, 2011, 2:00 pm

asicign wrote:Does pressure have any impact on how quickly solubles enter solution, or which compounds enter into solution? I wouldn't think so, but maybe someone has done the experiment.

I don't know why you wouldn't think so. I'd be a very surprised if it hadn't been done and published. A good place to start is here: http://www.asic-cafe.org/index.php
Marshall
Los Angeles

asicign

Postby asicign » Oct 10, 2011, 3:43 pm

[quote]Marshall wrote:
I don't know why you wouldn't think so.[/quote]
Pressure would have an effect if it favored a reaction or process to proceed in one direction over another. This is important for gases, but not so much for liquids, and even less for solids. Now that I think about it, however, pressure would effect the rate that a gas, such as CO2 would be released. Decreasing pressure at a constant temperature should result in increased rate of release of the gas. On the other hand, I don't think pressure would affect rate of solution of the soluble components of the grounds, or favor solution of one compound over another.

Marshall, thanks for the link, I'll see if I can find anything related to this topic.

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tekomino

Postby tekomino » Oct 10, 2011, 4:11 pm

Can't taste theories.
Refuse to wing it! http://10000shots.com

Gerry

Postby Gerry » Oct 10, 2011, 6:02 pm

asicign wrote:The question I was trying to ask in my last post is: Does a pressure profile have any effect on the puck/suspension/liquid other than the rate of flow?

You might also look here: Effects of brew pressure on taste of espresso. Flavor and mouth feel seem to be linked to pressure.
Gerry
Now sipping: Compass Delirium