VS_DoubleShot wrote:On the question of how we can know what the dose is if we aren't using a timer and we're not leveling - is it possible to dose and weigh once or twice, take a good look at it, and then eyeball it in the future (maybe even take a picture and hang it on the wall next to your setup). If I fill a basket from the doser and weigh that, now I know what (just an example) 16g looks like in the basket, unleveled, straight from my grinder and now I can duplicated that if my eyes function properly in a well-lit kitchen.

Once in a while you'd have to weigh again to be sure that you aren't way off but don't we all do a bit of measuring one way or another at some time or other (temps, times, weights) to be sure we're on track?

Anyone could argue this is too much guess-work, especially for a barista in a busy shop, and I'd say that's probably right.

This is pretty common, and what I assume most people do. Its accuracy is highly dependent on the coffee. As Mike said, it's less consistent with blends, but if the beans in a blend are all pretty close in density, the effect would be minimized. When running a blend with as much diversity as Meritage, I'd expect to see some variation, though probably not more than a gram or so. (again, as Mike said)

VS_DoubleShot wrote: FWIW, I think (forgive me if I'm wrong) that Jason is saying that the best tasting shot of espresso from a particular coffee is not necessarily a true representation of the characteristics of that coffee.

Yeah, that's what I've been trying to say. I guess it didn't come out well the first time, so the later attempt to use an analogy wasn't effective.

In terms of accuracy:

Weighing : ±0.1g

Timer [0.1s on moderate speed grinders] : ±0.3g with the odd outlier to keep things interesting. It's important to clear the detritus with a short clearing pulse of about a second.

Leveling for dosing is too much at odds with coffee, grinder and machine interactions to be worthy of consideration. [Always drive in 3rd gear???]

Untamping a dose. Now that's funny

Jasonian,

Sorry to pile on you, but I don't see how getting bad flavors from a coffee is any more virtuous by way of "authenticity" or what have you.

If I were to follow your line of reasoning, I would say that coffee farms are being "dishonest" when they remove defects from their greens or only harvest the ripest cherries.

As you know, there is an incredible amount of manual labor involved in coffee production. In my opinion, respect for the coffee means getting the best results you possibly can.

It seems you are taking a cupping mentality and applying it to drink preparation. When cupping, it is your job to identify the flaws in the coffee. But by the time the coffee is sourced, roasted, and about to be served to a customer, clearly you want to express the best aspects of that coffee.

Ryan

That said...

There is not one way to pull a shot that "tastes the best." And some styles of espresso reveal origin flavors more transparently than others. So perhaps what Jasonian is proposing is that he prefers espresso that highlights the origin.

I would generally agree with this idea but then argue that origin flavors are best presented against a pleasant canvas... for example acidity is communicated better with complementary sweetness.

Ryan

another_jim wrote: Of course, you can learn to celebrate the many facets of a coffee, both good and bad, by letting go of your rigid, over-controlled, western will to power, and never dosing the same twice

Personally, I aspire to being over-controlled. But I try not to be too rigid about it.

I have a couple of guidelines in this regard, and they serve me even as my circumstances change:
1. Control what you can
2. Keep some perspective
The latest iteration of these guidelines, prompted by giving up home roasting, has been to buy 5 lb deliveries of amazing, acclaimed coffees (currently, Intelli Black Cat) and vac freeze 7oz portions. I weigh each shot for 21g triples (Dalla Corte Mini, thin dispersion block) and grind per shot without hopper through a yogurt cup. I will stir with a point if there are obvious clumps, but mostly a few shakes and moderate swipe and tamp produce a channel-less shot. Leveling is via my finger tips on the basket rim.

Clearly, there are some compromises with this protocol. Some will shudder at the prospect of not using a hopper. These are people with much finer cupping sensibilities than I have. Besides, many evenings wind down with with a decaf cappa. Some day I'll buy a second grinder, but until then it's enough of a challenge to guess and change the grind without switching hoppers as well.

So, unlike my days as a home roaster, I've traded off the clear satisfactions of experimenting, blending, and getting surprised---for much more consistent shot preps. No question that the coffee, on average, is better; but the trade overall is a wash.

Finally, the great unknown factor in reading HB posts is whether or not the poster can cup his or her way out of a paper filter. Surely, coffee's flattest learning curve is becoming a reliable cupper--as it should be, IMO. And just as there's an art to being a home barista, there's a skill-set for reading and learning from this forum. Takes some time. And perspective.

for all the people skeptical about grinding by time I think it is worthwhile to mention.

I have timed how long several baristas who are very consistent dosers +-.5gram per shot, and while they use how much coffee is in the portafilter to tell them when to stop... they still ran the grinder for the same amount of time each time they dosed a shot to within +-.25secs.

A lot of these questions and suggestions have skirted the 'pro vs home' barista techniques. My technique is to weigh the dose of beans, and dose the burrs individually. This insures the same grind from dose to dose, the same dose from cup to cup, and the same result, if I keep the other variables close, each time. And yeah, I WDT and level each basket before putting it in the PF. While I would advocate that kind of ritual for any HB looking for consistency, I would absolutely expect a pro to laugh me out from behind the counter if I suggested that. I love that I can take that kind of time ('cause, I think I like the ritual almost as much as I like the coffee...) but I remember what kind of time constraints I had on me when I was pulling for customers.
And, like people, (Jason) I like to think that I'd like to get the best a person has to offer with each interaction, even if it isn't that persons inherent personality. I've worked with total pricks, total downers and total slackers, and convinced them to be nice, productive, and happy on the gig. While I've worked with mostly decent coffees, (cause my roaster friends are inherently good people) I still prefer the lie that they tell me to the lesser truths.

Bar baristas cannot afford the time you take.
But beyond that - they can afford to waste far more coffee than you can; the good ones are far more consistent in all phases of building a shot than any home barista (without complicated techniques); are looking for consistency above absolute quality when working the bar (not the case in competitions); and with few exceptions are working with equipment that makes consistent quality a lot (LOT) easier to come by.

And you need to differentiate not just Home Baristas and "Pro" Baristas, but rather Home Baristas, Bar Baristas and Competition Baristas.

Bar baristas cannot afford the time you take.

I think that that is why I pictured them laughing...

And you need to differentiate not just Home Baristas and "Pro" Baristas, but rather Home Baristas, Bar Baristas and Competition Baristas.

Kinda the point that I was making. Looking at the URL leads me to believe that the info here is meant to be tailored for those at home? I dunno...
Anyhoo, in the arena of time, I would think that the competing pro and the working pro would be under similar constraints. If you don't beat the clock, you're not moving on to the Bonus Stunt anyways...

Martin wrote:Finally, the great unknown factor in reading HB posts is whether or not the poster can cup his or her way out of a paper filter. Surely, coffee's flattest learning curve is becoming a reliable cupper--as it should be, IMO. And just as there's an art to being a home barista, there's a skill-set for reading and learning from this forum. Takes some time. And perspective.

I heartily agree. And, going a step further, the endorsement I nearly always disregard is "My friends say it's the best espresso they ever had."

After being shocked by a San Francisco restaurant that exceeded (by a good margin) the flavors I was getting at home from a favorite coffee, I've been re-evaluating all my home parameters and techniques (hi/lo pressure; thin/thick disk; double/triple basket; updose/no updose; etc.).

"Tastes great" isn't good enough anymore. I'm seeking the holy grail of maximum clarity!