I can't dial my grinder for pressurized basket.

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Kemo_88

Postby Kemo_88 » May 04, 2018, 7:09 pm

Hello all...

My first post here in this experienced forum.
I entered the world of espresso five months ago and bought a delonghi ec680 machine, of course using pre ground coffee for it and during that period i have learned a lot about espresso and have been pulling great shots with the supplied pressurized basket, in the process of upgrading me skills i bought a non pressurized basket but soon i found that it is impossible to work with pre ground coffee,, so i bought a grinder , Breville smart grinder pro...
So my plan was first dial in a grind that is typically like pre ground coffee and use it with the pressurized basket,, then after a while start to experience with the non-p basket,, i have a bag of carraro globe marone,ok, after some playing with my new toy, i found that 24 on the dial gives almost grind size identical to pre ground coffee,, so i tried a double shot, and found the shot has a very dark crema and was very bitter, it is a milk based drink so it is drinkable but i can feel the bitterness after taste..
I was surprised because the grind almost like pre ground coffee,, so i went coarser to 28, pulled a double and it was ok, pulled a single on the same 28 and it was very watery and almost drinking milk only.. What is going on here???, i know pressurized basket is very forgiving when it comes to grinding, but i dont know what is happening, i ordered a scale, it is on the way now to get things right, the single basket supposed to hold 7 grams and 14 for double, after measuring ml, double shot about 67 ml -24 sec with brew ratio of 4.8..

Kemo_88

Postby Kemo_88 » May 09, 2018, 5:29 pm

Ok, so i got a scale, and with the defult machine quantities.
Single shot 8 grams in 37 grams out in 16 seconds,, the drink is balanced and has a very nice flavor without any bitterness.
Double shot 14 grams in 70 grams out in 28 seconds,, problem is dark very bitter crema but underneath the crema a slight bitterness in the drink that i can feel after taste.
The roast is brown but not dark, machine temp is set to medium and grind size is the same in both shots, i think it is a little coarser than pre ground coffee but that what gives balanced shot to my single, i am using the machine standard pressurized baskets...

*sigh*

Postby *sigh* » replying to Kemo_88 » May 09, 2018, 5:59 pm

Those are extremely long pulls. Standard espresso is 1:2, (though you'll see a lot other recipes in the 1:1.5 to 1:2.5 range), you're close to a 1:5. You should try shortening the shot.

Also, I would make your jump to non-pressurized baskets now. It's going to cause more headaches then it's worth. Also, grind size isn't everything, so just because the 28 gives you a similar look, you're now dealing with a different fresh ground coffee that will react very different than a stale pre-ground coffee.

My recommendation, move to a non-pressurized basket, start with a dose for the "standard" double (or single if you so choose), "doubles" range from 14g to 19g almost 20g so I wouldn't default to 14g unless your basket is meant for that. And then shoot for a 1:2 in that 25-30s range. You'll probably need to go significantly finer than you are now, but even a mediocre shot with a non-pressurized basket will rival a great shot with a pressurized.

Kemo_88

Postby Kemo_88 » May 10, 2018, 4:05 am

Hey thanks

I know all the theory of espresso, i have been reading a lot, all theoritical, may be i am a fraid alittle to start playing around.

I have been using pre ground coffee since i bought the machine with good results, but when i start to go deeper into espresso i loved it especially when i started to go to professional cafes and taste what they make, i loved the Carraro globe marone coffee, so i bought the grinder and said will grind like pre ground size to use it with the pressurized supplied baskets, but it is not giving any good results untill now.

Why this home machines gives such long shots?, i do have a non pressurzed double basket but i have to remove the plastic spouts to fit, i will buy another set of the standard baskets and depressurized it, it takes 7g for single and 14g for double, but it may take more grams as i grind finer.

*sigh*

Postby *sigh* » May 10, 2018, 10:38 am

Kemo_88 wrote:Why this home machines gives such long shots?, i do have a non pressurzed double basket but i have to remove the plastic spouts to fit, i will buy another set of the standard baskets and depressurized it, it takes 7g for single and 14g for double, but it may take more grams as i grind finer.

There could be a number of factors.

The physical size of the grinds does make a difference, but what you'll find is some coffees need different grinds for a proper shot. So just trying to match the actual grind size from one coffee to the next won't guarantee the same results.

The long shots (1:5) in the times you're getting are basically a function of the grind being too coarse, the basket being underdosed, severe channeling (not as likely with a pressurized basket), among other things. Ultimately, there is something that is not providing enough resistance to the water moving through the coffee (which is primarily what a pressurized basket is supposed to help with).

Have you tried just tightening up the grind a bit? Or perhaps dosing more than 14? Some coffee beans are more dense then others, so a basket may be rated for 14g, but you might need to go as high as 15g with some coffees.

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mckolit

Postby mckolit » May 10, 2018, 11:22 am

Kemo_88 wrote:...i do have a non pressurzed double basket but i have to remove the plastic spouts to fit, i will buy another set of the standard baskets and depressurized it, it takes 7g for single and 14g for double, but it may take more grams as i grind finer.


You will not be able to to use a depressurized delonghi basket. You'll need to buy a different basket. The delonghi basket, after you remove the pressurizing bits, has a solid bottom with one hole in the middle. It's easy to cut up the delonghi portafilter to make them bottomless as the spouts are just made of plastic.

Kemo_88

Postby Kemo_88 » May 10, 2018, 6:49 pm

*sigh* wrote:There could be a number of factors.

The physical size of the grinds does make a difference, but what you'll find is some coffees need different grinds for a proper shot. So just trying to match the actual grind size from one coffee to the next won't guarantee the same results.

The long shots (1:5) in the times you're getting are basically a function of the grind being too coarse, the basket being underdosed, severe channeling (not as likely with a pressurized basket), among other things. Ultimately, there is something that is not providing enough resistance to the water moving through the coffee (which is primarily what a pressurized basket is supposed to help with).

Have you tried just tightening up the grind a bit? Or perhaps dosing more than 14? Some coffee beans are more dense then others, so a basket may be rated for 14g, but you might need to go as high as 15g with some coffees.


Now i understand,, because the coffee is coarse, water will flow much faster, a 28g espresso would be done in 15 seconds, so they increase the yield so the machine keeps running to finally hit 28 seconds.
I already updosed my single to 8 grams, taste is still great maybe a little stronger in after taste,, still did not try change the double dose, dont know why the crema is different from single to double, single has light brown crema, but double has a dark bitter crema.

Kemo_88

Postby Kemo_88 » May 10, 2018, 6:53 pm

mckolit wrote:You will not be able to to use a depressurized delonghi basket. You'll need to buy a different basket. The delonghi basket, after you remove the pressurizing bits, has a solid bottom with one hole in the middle. It's easy to cut up the delonghi portafilter to make them bottomless as the spouts are just made of plastic.


Why??
I will cut the buttom wall that has the tiny hole revealing the actual wall..

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mckolit

Postby mckolit » replying to Kemo_88 » May 10, 2018, 10:03 pm

They must have changed the design of the portafilter baskets. Mine had a solid bottom with the hole in the middle.

Kemo_88

Postby Kemo_88 » replying to mckolit » May 11, 2018, 10:14 am

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