Hey gang,

Just received my upgrade machine, went from a Silvia/Rocky to an Appartamento/270W.

My usual morning drink is a cortado, so just a couple of ounces of milk for right around a total four ounce beverage.

When I was steaming on the Silvia, the only way I repeatedly got decent microfoam was with the assistance of the Espro Toroid pitcher, which seems to do a good job managing good milk texturing on a single hole tip attached to a smaller boiler.

My new Rocket has a two hole steam tip and gobs more steam pressure. Everything happens so fast! I'm attempting to use the pitcher as Espro recommends, with the wand straight down in the center and letting the pitcher create the whirlpool.

I've only had the machine for a day, so I may well be jumping to conclusions, but it seems like this may not be the best pitcher for a wand like this, with this amount of pressure. This morning I alternately got foam that was too thick or too thin. It never got anywhere like a dry cappuccino foam, but my hope was that with some practice I can start doing a poor job of making latte art every morning. I know this machine can do it, but I know that I don't have the skill yet, and I'm not sure if I'm working with the right tools.

I made my wife a latte and it was much easier to control steaming a larger amount of milk, unsurprisingly. I usually steam 3-5 ounces for a cortado and throw some away and a bit more for her lattes.

I know there aren't gobs of Appartamentos in the wild, but there are a lot of 1.8L HX owners out there. Have any of you had luck with the Toroid, and what's everyones preferred pitcher for small amounts of milk?

I'm not the expert here but I too used a Toroid on my Silvia to good effect but had trouble when we upgraded to a big steaming machine. I instantly had more success going to a regular straight-sided jug but the biggest difference was in having the appropriate size jug for how much milk I'm doing. I think the standard idea is pitcher size about twice the amount of milk you are doing. So I think the main thing is use a smaller jug.

You could plug a hole in your tip or turn your boiler pressure down but I think you'll get the hang of it quickly without that. You almost don't have to stretch the milk at all, just roll it.

As nate said, I think using the right size pitcher is a good start to helping you out. I have a small one I use for capps.

How small are we talking? I have the smallest Toroid, which is 12 ounces.

Any recommendations for good straight sided small pitchers? The Decent Espresso ones look nice, but are a bit spendy.

I have a 8oz cream pitcher that I bought from Sur la Table. Works great.

You can get similar at https://www.amazon.com/Cordon-Bleu-9001 ... 0000VLG3Y/ $13.50

achosid wrote:How small are we talking? I have the smallest Toroid, which is 12 ounces.

Any recommendations for good straight sided small pitchers? The Decent Espresso ones look nice, but are a bit spendy.

My Toroid was the next size up from yours so perhaps you're not steaming in way too big of a jug, just a little... I did buy the smallest Decent jug and like it a lot but there is nothing particularly special about it in making good microfoam itself so most any small jug may be an improvement (but I do think the bottom of the Toroid is best for slow, one-tip steamers). I think given a bit of time you'll find the rhythm to the bigger steam on your own regardless. But if you're looking for an excuse to buy another jug, go for it (even if a cheap small one)!

Welp. Ordered the smallest Rattleware, because I may as well.

I steam 4 oz. in a 12 oz. Rattleware and it works fine. Now if someone would buy me a Euro espresso machine I will become the latte art King.

achosid wrote:How small are we talking? I have the smallest Toroid, which is 12 ounces. Any recommendations for good straight sided small pitchers? The Decent Espresso ones look nice, but are a bit spendy.

I bought a 150ml straight-side SS pitcher from Amazon after someone posted about it on HB (the one I got is no longer available). I have a 4 hole LM tip on Oscar, so the steam's both strong and voluminous. I can make fine microfoam with 3 oz (90ml) in the 150 ml pitcher 3 out of every 4 tries. It's not as consistent as using 6 oz (180ml) in a 350ml pitcher because you only have a few seconds with so small a volume of milk - so the tiniest variation affects the result. Using more milk is much more forgiving - so I usually just fill a 12 oz pitcher to the bottom of the pour spout indentation (a little less than 6 oz), foam away, and dump whatever's left if making a smaller drink.

While browsing Amazon about 2 years ago, I came across these 12 oz pitchers at $8.99 for a set of 3. I took a chance on them and couldn't be happier - I get the same great foam and art with these that I get from my much heavier commercial 12 oz pitchers. The only thing to keep in mind is that the walls are much thinner on these than on more expensive pitchers, so they heat up faster in your hand (especially if you use a multihole steam tip that directs a jet against the inside wall where you're holding it in your palm). So I have to stop steaming a second or two before I would with a thicker pitcher, which doesn't seem to have affected my foam at all.

I have the small old cafelat one and it rolls 3-4 oz of milk like a dream.