How to get decent espresso from thermoblock espresso machine? - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
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HB
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#11: Post by HB »

another_jim wrote:About 1.5 seconds of thought will convince you that a thermoblock in combination with a conventional lever group will produce stunningly transparent espresso.
Eh, I've given up on "thought experiments" as a means of predicting performance. Too many times I assumed superior performance based on specifications and was proven wrong, much like your recent Dalla Mini Corte vs. Elektra Semiautomatica endeavor.
Dan Kehn

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Eiron

#12: Post by Eiron »

Hey guys,

I'm trying to cobble together my Quick Mill thermoblock review, including the temp probe readings I took during various attempts. (Home projects keep getting in the way of my leisure time...)

Where's the best forum to place it in?

Greg
He's dead, Jim... You grab his tricorder, I'll get his wallet.

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HB
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#13: Post by HB »

Eiron wrote:Where's the best forum to place it in?
The Espresso Machines forum, though truthfully your review would reach a larger audience on Coffeegeek.
Dan Kehn

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another_jim
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#14: Post by another_jim »

About "transparent" thermoblock lever group espresso ...
HB wrote:Eh, I've given up on "thought experiments" as a means of predicting performance. Too many times I assumed superior performance based on specifications and was proven wrong, much like your recent Dalla Mini Corte vs. Elektra Semiautomatica endeavor.
We need a sarcasm smiley
Jim Schulman

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HB
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#15: Post by HB »

Whew, you had me scared for a minute. :lol:
Dan Kehn

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Eiron

#16: Post by Eiron »

RapidCoffee, in [i]Post rarely or not as all?[/i] wrote:... If you choose to post impressions of the QuickMill thermoblock, I'm sure there would be interest in it as a reasonably-priced alternative to e.g. an entry-level Gaggia. Not everyone can afford a Speedster.

Pardon me for mixing metaphors, but without new blood, this site will stagnate and wither on the vine. I'd like to encourage reluctant posters to participate freely in these fora, without fear of equipment bashing. We're all bound by our love of the bean, right?
cafeIKE, in [i]Post rarely or not as all?[/i] wrote:If we're intimidating people from posting due to equipment value, we've got a serious problem.
...
Many of us here started with equipment way below the kilobuck range. The most important thing is a passion for espresso and knowledge of what is espresso. I would read with great interest how the QM 0930 performs in the hands of a dedicated espressionist. Too many people who purport to 'love espresso' have not got a clue what espresso is. ...
HB wrote:The Espresso Machines forum, though truthfully your review would reach a larger audience on Coffeegeek.
OK Dan, thanks for the direction. I guess I understand your POV.
Truth be told, even CG refused to create a Consumer Reviews field for this class of QM. *sigh*
He's dead, Jim... You grab his tricorder, I'll get his wallet.

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HB
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#17: Post by HB »

Eiron wrote:Truth be told, even CG refused to create a Consumer Reviews field for this class of QM.
Alternative explanation: CG advertisers can buy "geeklinks" that appear next to the chosen review of product X. Products carried by many sponsors are more likely to get listed. Those that are less popular among sponsors are less likely to be listed.
Dan Kehn

Decent Espresso: espresso equipment for serious baristas
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another_jim
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#18: Post by another_jim »

As far as I know, Vaneli's is the only vendor of the Quickmill thermoblocks in the US. Contrary to Europe, they simply have no profile at all here.
Jim Schulman

acquavivaespresso

#19: Post by acquavivaespresso »

HB wrote:Was this patent issued in the US?
No Dan, the patent was not issued in the US but just in Italy : OMRE, now Quickmill (also a registered mark of OMRE) was probably provincial but you must admit that back in 1959, when the very first household espresso machine was built, US could not even be considered a potential market for espresso machines. To that very first machine that was a "hot water pot" machine (if I may say so, since the stainless steel water container was basically an open boiler) followed the first thermoblock (cast aluminum with heating element and a copper serpentine) machine at the same time that Gaggia was coming heavily into the market (considering that OMRE could not make machines quick enough) with advertising all over Italy, and that was 1962 NOT late 70 as Jim pretends to know or was wrongly informed, and ever since all OMRE production was thermoblock, admired and regarded as the BEST, when you could buy from the local shop who would advise the customer to buy Quick if he wanted the best quality, and when I got calls from old time customers looking for parts on a machine they had owned for 15-20 years my answer would be : please give us a chance and buy a new one. I honestly think that thermoblock is a better way for a number of reasons, but will also agree that many companies are using it as a cheap way out, using smaller, unbalanced, underpowered, overpowered thermoblocks that can only give a short espresso (at the right temperature) if grinding and tamping are correct, with drop of temperature for a longer drink or burnt drink if grinding is too fine.
If you can read dutch you could visit http://www.drtrading.nl and read description of 810-820 machine where they state that of the over 50.000 machines that they bought in a long relationship "ONLY" 12 thermoblocks failed:
Still had I been in the place of the parents of the guy who started this post I would have given him a "POD" machine so that he could immediately enjoy a good cup and decide by himself if he really wanted to better his skills, because you see, the average quality espresso from pod is better than the average quality that all novices, and many so called experts can brew : the product is always fresh being nitrogen flushed, grinding is correct and any decent machine will deliver a decent cup:
But of course there is plenty room for the fully automatics and the semi-professional machines

acquavivaespresso

#20: Post by acquavivaespresso »

another_jim wrote:Thermoblocks have the potential to respond fast enough to make intrashot temperature profiling possible. Needless to say that won't happen with a button thermostat most thermoblock machines use.
You are right to the extent that a PID will give an immediate reading, but there you need electronics.
Button thermostats have thermal hysteresis of 12-13 degrees celsius and you need a "well balanced" thermoblock to make up for that, still while then it was not, nowadays electronics is readily available and the BEST way to go is PID reading, and ..... wait, I am not teaching you how to build a good thermoblock, even though I consider that you are smart enough to figure out by yourself if you really went to work for it.
Many great espressos