Ken Fox wrote:Abe, You are not worried about EVIL condensation?

Maybe Abe isn't worried, but I stick by advice to not unseal frozen beans until they hit room temperature.

I admit this is based merely on logic, rather than direct experiment. There is a copious literature on moisture damaging coffee. But it seems that Ken thinks that may only be true of fresh coffee, not of previously frozen. After all, his claim to fame is proving how different frozen coffee is from fresh.

I actually have no idea about any of this. And I don't as a rule grind frozen beans to make espresso, plus it is no bother to me to take frozen coffee out of the deep freeze a day or two before I use it, so that is what I do.

But I try not to confuse what I might do out of superstition with those things I do that have some sort of basis in fact (probably not many things in that category). Like most people, I do lots of things based up on superstition. I am not embarrassed to admit that, I'm just being honest.

ken

another_jim wrote:I admit this is based merely on logic, rather than direct experiment.

Again, I won't need to participate in a double blind three way to figure out that if my grounds are damp inside my grinder, it's gonna be harder to clean next time I go through it. In addition, I'm way hip to humidity changing the grind that I use, so I'm pretty sure that dampness applied right to the bean during grinding is going to change things too.
I don't need proof beyond a reasonable doubt, nor do I need documentation of experimentation like I'm defending a thesis, to know that adding water to my puck isn't going to be helping me out any. I'm just 'splainin' what happens to my coffee in my kitchen.

Yesterday, that same thermometer on the porch showed 93F and we had 28% humidity, rising to rainfall for a few minutes.
The last post on the weather here was changing so rapidly that by the time I went and pulled me another cuppa, the temp was down to 86F (a drop of fourteen degrees in less than fifteen minutes) and the rain lasted as it does here, for less than that.
Humidity may not be and issue in your air-conditioning (or heat, I guess, this time of year), but it still does present and actual detriment to pulling great shots here in the SW. I'll give y'all a great experiment to simulate what'd be like.
Grind a shot as normal, pull it, observing what it looks like, and taste it. Repeat this until you get something you like. Then measure out your next dose ans spray it with a hose. Repeat the last shots grind/dose/distribution technique and let me know if it changes the appearance and taste of the pull.
If it does, then I think that the theory that introducing moisture to the outside of the bean just prior to grinding might be detrimental might hold some water.

Ken Fox wrote:I do lots of things based up on superstition.

I refuse to do things based on a superstition. I think that superstitions are bad luck.

another_jim wrote:Maybe Abe isn't worried, but I stick by advice to not unseal frozen beans until they hit room temperature.

I admit this is based merely on logic, rather than direct experiment.

See Does Condensate Affect Coffee? for 'speriment

There have been a couple times when I forgot to take some beans out of the freezer the night before, and was faced with the option of using "frozen" beans to make the morning espresso. Now granted, I've never done taste testing between defrosted and chilly beans back to back - however I did do a test where two subjects compared the taste of the espresso made from still "frozen" beans to the taste of empty cups, and found the prior to be superior in all respects.

Now granted it wasn't a blind test, and there may have been some biases involved (it was either that or skip espresso that morning ), but I didn't notice any major differences or flaws from using cold beans. Unfortunately I didn't pay attention to the quality of the espresso on subsequent days, it's quite possibly that the quality of the shots could have gone down hill once the moisture had more time to work it's insidious magic (as Ians tests found), but if there wasn't an effect I probably didn't put two and two together, and instead just chalked it up to bad technique or something.

Some of us may be working at cross purposes. While I am interested to see if exposure to condensate (and I'm following the other thread) changes the beans, I am more concerned about actual liquid going into the grinder with my beans and mixing with my grounds to make paste in my grinding chamber and doser. It's cooled down to the mid to high seventies Thanksgiving weather 'round here, but having temperatures and humidity that would extract two or more ounces of condensate form the surface of a twelve ounce glass of ice water, before I could finish it, just weeks ago, it was a concern.
To illustrate how much of an issue it has become, I no longer use coasters. I've re purposed my old ashtrays as places to set cold drinks. Coasters were getting swamped.

If the coffee is going from the freezer bag into a grinder, with the complete contents to be immediately ground, I don't have any problems with not thawing the beans first. The heat of grinding ought to deal with the moisture issue. Otherwise, I would recommend allowing the bag to achieve a temperature more than 5 degrees above the local dew point.

Talk about a voice from the past. Evening Barry. I let my beans rest and come up to room or near room temperature although I have taken a dose out of the freezer and dropped them right into the grinder for a single shot, then let the rest defrost unless I am in a dire situation.

I find it takes little time for the beans to come up to room temperature. An hour or two at the very most. So that's what I do. If I were desperate I would do exactly what Dave says above. England is sufficiently humid as it is without me leaving damp beans sitting in the hopper

Cheers

Mike