How hot/cool do you brew dark roast espresso? - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
cmin
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#11: Post by cmin »

Milligan wrote:It depends on your machine too. 200F boiler temp doesn't necessarily mean 200F at the coffee. With my decent I had to drop temps across the board due to its probe being right above the puck compared to my previous GS3 even with its saturated group head.

As for temps, I'm usually in the 190F-195F range for medium and even lower for true dark. I've also leaned toward faster extractions for dark. In the 23-26s range instead of in the 30s. Hard to get a sour shot out of dark roast, but if you do wow it's awful.
Interesting you say that as have a modded BDB, and had a modded GS3. Even scaced found temps spot on to GS3 and similar parameters for pulling, which makes sense as the group on the BDB performs like a saturated even on repeated shots (where both would destroy my last E61 a Lucca M58 in accurate stability)

I've thought of getting a Decent so that had me curious. So your saying for example you had a bean pulling at say 202 on GS3, you had to pull that same bean at like 195 for example?

Like I have med Brazil right now, not using slayer except to profile down just slightly but have PI at 80% and temp at 201. So you pull mediums at 190-195? Wow I didn't realize the temp difference there, but I could swear I recall other DE1 users stating similar? Used one before but I guess I didn't really pay attention to temps in that sense.

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iploya
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#12: Post by iploya »

RainbowVillages wrote:...most of my coffee friends look at me like I'm crazy when I suggest pulling at 180F!

I'm curious: what temp are you all brewing darker coffees at?
I haven't gone quite that low yet, but I do drop down to like 190-192F and a short ratio of like 1:1 on a dark Italian roast, which is way lower than where I do other, lighter coffees. (I always feel compelled to mention that I learned this from another forum user a while back; I did not and probably would not have come up with this on my own.) The smaller cup volume at that lower ratio also seems appropriate for stronger, dark-roast flavors.

cmin
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#13: Post by cmin replying to iploya »

I just had Howells Alchemy which I haven't had in a long time. I don't know what was up but it had heavy dark roasted notes and bitterness (and it's not dark roasted), and I was dropping temp to 192 and still couldn't shake it, even with HG1 Prime. I'm sure would've been even worse with one of my flats lol. Tried 1:2, 1:1.5, 1:1 and just couldn't dial it in. Not the Howell I remember, the other bean or two (have to look at order can't remember) were kinda mehh. Think one was Boa Estate.

RainbowVillages (original poster)
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#14: Post by RainbowVillages (original poster) »

Mat-O-Matic wrote:Darker = cooler and coarser, and less/no preinfusion. Curious if your very low temps are extracting less making the fine grind work better.
This is almost definitely the case. The 1:1.5-1:2 shots I've been pulling like this have fallen around 17-18% EY. I find the Shurikones pull more consistently and efficiently at finer grinds. Even shorter ratio light roast espresso is coming out reasonably extracted, all things considered.

I should note too that I'm just experimenting trying to eliminate as much roastyness and bitterness as possible from a medium-dark roasted coffee, not embracing the pleasant bitterness that can be enjoyed from the same bean brewed a little more traditionally.

Milligan
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#15: Post by Milligan »

cmin wrote:Interesting you say that as have a modded BDB, and had a modded GS3. Even scaced found temps spot on to GS3 and similar parameters for pulling, which makes sense as the group on the BDB performs like a saturated even on repeated shots (where both would destroy my last E61 a Lucca M58 in accurate stability)

I've thought of getting a Decent so that had me curious. So your saying for example you had a bean pulling at say 202 on GS3, you had to pull that same bean at like 195 for example?

Like I have med Brazil right now, not using slayer except to profile down just slightly but have PI at 80% and temp at 201. So you pull mediums at 190-195? Wow I didn't realize the temp difference there, but I could swear I recall other DE1 users stating similar? Used one before but I guess I didn't really pay attention to temps in that sense.
I never scaced either machine. I know my recipes changed significantly when moving to the Decent and temperature (temp data provided by the machines) was one of the larger changes.

I recently had a conversation that came up while taste testing light roast coffees via turbos. The tastiest light roast turbos were pulled via a profile called Extractamundo Dos which starts at 180F (177F on the profile but true temp read by the probe ends up being 180F) and drops a few degrees during the pull. Had to wrap my head around pulling light roast at that low of a temp but they were great shots.

A typical medium roast profile that I enjoy pulls at a target temp of 190F where I'd be 198F or a bit more for medium on the GS3. I'll go a bit lower with dark roast. I've also found that I've cut my shot time by 5-6s compared to the GS3.

FWIW, I have not tested them side by side. I sold the GS3 and bought the Decent. I'd love to have them side by side to compare directly.

Rustic39
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#16: Post by Rustic39 »

I'm using an ECM Synchronika with flow control, and an ECM flat burr grinder. Most of my dark roasts are stopped at about Vienna roast level max. I'm roasting medium to high altitude beans, with an occasional blend of two varieties. I am typically running brew temps of 203-210F for my Full City- Full City + roastings, long preinfusion, and with a 1:2.5 yield ratio, Occasional going 1:3.5 on some blends.
My Vienna roasts generally need 180-187F brew temp, at a ratio of 1:1 down to 1:0.75 in order to mitigate the over extraction bitterness. Turbo shots, and/or lower pressure down to as much as 4.5 bar sometimes. No preinfusion.

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cafeIKE
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#17: Post by cafeIKE »

JohnB. wrote:Most medium roasts do well around 200°F but I've had several recently (Caffe Lusso GMC & Lionshare) that were best at 202°F.
There's no hard & fast rule. Grind, dose & hardware all have temperature contributing factors.

Caffé Lusso RESCUE:FREEDOM BLEND 203°F
17.5g Triple basket 30g/30s