Hey everyone,

So I am sitting here with another average tasting espresso wondering what to try next, and if my expectations are out of line with reality. I am in a town that has unbelievably great espresso. Thick, sweet, full of tasting notes, delicious. However, my home espresso has never come close to this level. So my first question is this, using a Pharos 2.0 (owned since early Jan, probably 25lbs through the burrs so far) and a Breville Dual Boiler, is it possible to achieve cafe quality shots? (I'm using the stock breville basket 18-19g in with a 58.5mm tamper, WDT, and RDT. For beans, I get freshly roasted from a local third wave shop. The espresso they serve is on point. Delicious every time)

Notes on experimentation

For ratios, I have explored from 1:1 to 1:2.5. Within the 1:2-2.5 ratio range I have had the best results. Trying to describe how my shots taste is a little difficult, they lack depth/separation of flavour, they're somewhat bland sometimes, overall they just taste like very average espresso. Nothing too offensive but nothing really enjoyable either.

For temperature, I have been playing around with the entire range the Breville offers. So normally I was pulling between 91-94C, today I pulled at 86. I expected some sourness but it was actually not bad. Nothing cringworthy but kindof bland. Pulling at 96C wasnt a bitter shock either. Slight differences only.

For pressure, on my Bezzera Unica, I've been playing with the pressure quite a bit, pulling shots from 6 bar to 9 bar. Definitely noticed some differences with this but again, wasn't able to achieve anything close to a cafe style shot. I haven't played too much with the pressure on the Breville, its still new, but I have tried pressure profiling mid shot using the water knob however, this is way out of my league for pulling espresso with any kind of consistency.


Other thoughts

I have no doubt technique plays a role in my results. I'm definitely not an expert however, I try to maintain consistency in my prep/pulls. Same style of WDT, and tamp pressure.

MD50 shots - I had put the MD50 the closet for the last few months (since getting the pharos) but recently took it out to try it as part of a single dose vs hopper full experiment. I get difference results from the pharos but its tough to say if its better or worse. This kind of surprised me as I expected a 68mm conical to easily best the 64mm flat.


More Rambling and Questions

So in my search for deadly espresso, where should I go from here?

Final thought, there is a fairly significant difference in how the grinds from the md50 and pharos look and feel. I'm going to attach a couple pictures to show them side by side. Not sure if it will help at all but I would love to know if i'm crazy or if anyone agrees that they are oddly different. In the pictures the MD50 grind is on the left, and the pharos grind is on the right. Basket shot is with pharos grinds. They are both set to pull similar volumes ~40-45g out in 30 seconds

If anyone has any tips or thoughts on what I should do next I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

Images

Would the water quality make the difference?

When I tested my water with the hardness strip that came with the Breville, it didn't even register as hard on the scale. I'm open to trying a bottled water though if you have any common brand recommendations from Canada

Hey Sam!
Do you think you could be over-extracting your shots? The fact they're running fairly long and that 'lack of taste' you describe might fit wth this. I have a BDB and tend to dose 20g in the stock basket. The first thing I would do is try this and see whether it helps. Certainly up-dosing will increase the intensity and richness you should get in the cup.
Secondly, how long is your pre-infusion set for? I have mine set to 7 seconds, and tend to run a 1:1.5-1.2 shot in around 34-37 seconds. This gets me a really thick, rich sweet shot with a bit of acidity around the edges. See whether this gives you more of the characteristics you're looking for in the cup.

I will give that a try! Machine is warming up now. My preinfusion is set for 7 seconds as well. I think at 65%. I'll report back once I pull a few. Thanks!

Ok that was good. Only had time to pull one shot at 20g. Probably one of the best shots I've pulled in the last few days. Wasn't perfect but it was definitely an improvement. 20g in, 45 out. Tomorrow I'll tighten up the grind a bit and shoot for 30-35g out.

What temperature do you have your machine set to?

Great news
See how the shot goes tomorrow with 30-35g out. I've tried a few different temperatures but always seem to settle on 93'C.
Let me know how it goes!
Henry

mjoets wrote:Would the water quality make the difference?

I wanted to do a little more testing before I posted anything but I think you solved the issue for me. I think my water was too pure... Or too low in TDS. I've been playing around with bottled water the last few days. First I did eska brand and had a noticeable difference in shot quality. More viscous, less bland, more distinct flavours. But still not cafe quality. Closer though.

Today I pulled a few shots using Nestle pure life. Probably not good for my boiler but the shots I pulled were consistently solid. Actually had similarities to the cafe I like.

So this has motivated me to blend my own water. I'll post again with results from that. But I'm stoked on the progress so far.

Appreciate the help from everyone!

Fellow BDB user... Water makes a difference. Be careful with bottled water, some is too hard, and some isn't, but still has hardness components in it, even if just a little. You don't want hardness in it, but you do want TDS in it, (as long as that TDS is not in the form of hardness components, Mg and Can).

I have two homes, and espresso in both. In the vacation home, on the advice of a Chemistry Professor in the lever group, I buy 5 gallon jugs of distilled water and add a little baking soda... About 100-150 mg per gallon give or take (it's not pharmaceuticals here). There is zero hardness but plenty of TDS from the bicarbonates of soda. You can also add calcium carbonate instead, from eBay, Amazon, or your local home brewing supply. You will never have to descale or buy those little resin bead pillows from Breville.

In home number two, where we rent, I installed an espresso specific filter system under the kitchen sink. There are a couple that jump to mind. The one I have is from 3M. It's a little more expensive, but tidy and compact. Or Chris Coffee sells one for a little less. It's a little more bulky, but less proprietary and less expensive than the 3M. It takes 140ppm water that is fairly hard, removes almost all the hardness, and returns 170ppm water with almost no hardness.

If you are put off by mixing your own distilled water, don't be. It's easier than shopping for the right bottled water, which is likely to vary in suitability with almost every batch and change of season.

-Peter

coochchilli wrote:When I tested my water with the hardness strip that came with the Breville, it didn't even register as hard on the scale. I'm open to trying a bottled water though if you have any common brand recommendations from Canada

I buy Zehres (superstore etc) which is around 250 ppm TDS for $1 for 4l and mix it with reverse osmosis ($1 for 4L) until I get it around 100 ppm measuring with a cheap TDS meter from amazon or ebay.


Randy