Help Dialing in Rancilio Silvia and Baratza 270 - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
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cannonfodder
Team HB

Postby cannonfodder » Mar 15, 2018, 9:23 pm

207 on the boiler is probably around 195-197 at the group. Have you check the boiler to group temperature offset?

preinfuse for a second, off for a second... Does the Silvia now have a preinfuse setting or are you turning it on for a second or two then off again? That will slightly pressurize the group then dump the pressure through the 3-way when you turn it off. That does bad things to the puck in the portafilter.
Dave Stephens

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Jake_G
Team HB

Postby Jake_G » Mar 16, 2018, 6:53 am

bcparfitt wrote:I believe it is the double basket that came with the Silvia...

40-100-102

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LHy5dTl9htDlYYfh2


Ah...

I can't fit more than 13.5g in the 102 basket without squishing the puck against the shower screen on my S20, which has a similar group geometry to that of miss Silvia. Have you tried the nickel test to verify you're not hitting the shower screen when you lock the portafilter on?

I found that I was up-dosing so badly that locking the portafilter on was not only fracturing the puck, but also super-tamping the puck with the force of a thousand Spartan warriors against the shower screen. Once I dropped the dose down far enough that I had ~3mm headspace between the puck and the shower screen, my shots started pouring in roughly 10 seconds. I tightened up the grind like you wouldn't believe to get back to a 30 second pour and my extraction was MUCH better... :shock:

cannonfodder wrote:That does bad things to the puck in the portafilter.

+1

If your PID has preinfusion control, then it accomplishes this (well, it should, at least :P ) by controlling the pump separate from the 3 way valve. Either way, I am leaning towards recommending that you stop trying to preinfuse until you get results that you're happy with. It's one more variable that could be getting in the way of you getting consistent results. Once you're able to get repeatable results that you're generally pleased with, you can start preinfusing again and see if it makes things more interesting, or less consistent...

Also +1 on the temperature suggestion.

Cheers!

- Jake

bcparfitt

Postby bcparfitt » Mar 17, 2018, 10:26 am



Ok.. Finally got around to getting this video up... I had to scrub audio as there was a lot of background chatter.

Let me know how it looks as I'm still working on dialing in the shots with this bean.

Again - Thanks much for the tips and info. Some great suggestions coming so far.

Regards,
Brian

bcparfitt

Postby bcparfitt » Mar 19, 2018, 9:36 am

Jake_G wrote:Ah...

I can't fit more than 13.5g in the 102 basket without squishing the puck against the shower screen on my S20, which has a similar group geometry to that of miss Silvia. Have you tried the nickel test to verify you're not hitting the shower screen when you lock the portafilter on?

I found that I was up-dosing so badly that locking the portafilter on was not only fracturing the puck, but also super-tamping the puck with the force of a thousand Spartan warriors against the shower screen. Once I dropped the dose down far enough that I had ~3mm headspace between the puck and the shower screen, my shots started pouring in roughly 10 seconds. I tightened up the grind like you wouldn't believe to get back to a 30 second pour and my extraction was MUCH better... :shock:



Jake - I believe your advice in this are was spot on. I had noticed screen and bolt indentations in the puck when I removed the PF after pulling shots, but hadn't thought much of it...I switched back to the larger basket which I assumed was the triple basket and have drastically improved results. I'm getting very good shots consistently now that pour in 25-30 seconds before blonding. Dose in is 17g and I'm finishing up with 31-34g easily. Very nice flavor in the shot and I finally have the sweetness back in the cup. Excellent!

One follow-up question... I find that 17g in this larger basket to be just a touch on the low side for this size basket. i.e. The mound of ground coffee is just barely above the rim of the portafilter, making it difficult to level with the side of my finger. I have been tapping the side of the pf to level the mound, but it doesn't always go perfectly. Should I increase the dose to make leveling easier and ensure consistent filling across the pf?

What do you normally dose the larger basket size with?

Also - With respect to pre-infusion through the pid, I am currently just pulling shots manually while I dial in consistent results (also a great sugggestion). I may try to play with the pre-infusion again when I am confident I have shots pulling consistently across the board.

Brian

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Jake_G
Team HB

Postby Jake_G » Mar 19, 2018, 10:13 am

bcparfitt wrote:One follow-up question... I find that 17g in this larger basket to be just a touch on the low side for this size basket. i.e. The mound of ground coffee is just barely above the rim of the portafilter, making it difficult to level with the side of my finger. I have been tapping the side of the pf to level the mound, but it doesn't always go perfectly. Should I increase the dose to make leveling easier and ensure consistent filling across the pf?


My solution was to get the 103 or 104 basket (18g, can't remember the part number off the top of my head), which has more vertical sides and is better suited to 17g doses than either the 102 (14g max on our machines) or the triples, which often have oodles of excess perforated area on the bottom, although I'm not sure this is a bad thing...

At any rate, even with the 18g basket, 17 to 17.5 grams is nowhere near the top of the basket prior to tamping, but is the absolute max I can fit without hitting the shower screen, which is why I made this godawful contraption...

Were I slightly less of a cheapskate, I'd have bought a quality distribution tool, but I don't think the science is in their court when used as they typically are. I do think that they serve a purpose when the bed of grounds is below the rim of the basket and my results have been far better using the tool than without. I don't do WDT, but I highly suspect that if I did, I would stop using my tool altogether. One thing at a time...

If the top of your puck is soupy, chances are that you can increase your dose with little-to-no negative results. You can also increase your yield whilst maintaining the same brew ratio if you go this route. Let the headspace guide you to the maximum dose you can get in your basket and let your taste and preference for basket prep guide how little you use. If you have the factory slotted head machine screw securing your shower screen, you can use it as a guide for maximum dose. Dont be afraid to see an imprint of the screw on a spent puck, but you should be able to lock your portafilter on and pull it back off without seeing anything more than just a slight mark on the top of the dry puck. If there's a hole punched in the puck, you've got too much in the basket. I know VST baskets have a reputation for being unforgiving of variations in dose, but I suspect the truth is that they are unforgiving to changes in headspace... not sure why too much headspace would be problematic, but more than a few folks have found that dosing too little in a VST causes more harm than good. I don't use VST baskets (yet :wink:), but even so, I tend to dose as much as I can without hitting the shower screen.

Have you done the flat shower screen mod yet? I highly recommend it for maximizing dose in a given basket. Your shot video looks pretty solid to my untrained eyes. At this point, it's all about TASTE.

Cheers!

- Jake