Help dial-in grind & extraction

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.

Postby HoyaZot » Sep 13, 2016, 8:16 pm

Update: Here's where I am at right now.
I pulled one double-shot with the new Blue Bottle beans. Here are the results; I'm going to hold off on everything until I get some feedback from you guys. Thanks again for all the help! :mrgreen:
  • Blue Bottle Hayes Valley - Roasted Sept. 11 and rested since Sept. 13
  • Blue Bottle sent a card recommending: Dose - 20g, boiler 201.5F, extraction 32s, yield 20-20.5g
first extraction results:
  • Dose (automatic) 23g
  • Extraction time 32s total, including 7 seconds pre-infusion at 60% pressure
  • Yield - 46.5g (I stopped the extraction sooner than blue bottle suggested because this yielded close to 60mls)
It's not the worst thing I've ever tasted, but i would not describe it as "good" either. For those who are familiar with the Breville I used a grind setting of 24.

Finer grind?

HoyaZot wrote:I burned through my locally roasted beans. Cleaned out the hopper, brushed the upper burr, ran the grinder to get the rest out, and refilled the hopper full up with blue bottle hayes valley. see below.

by the way, thanks guys for all the replies and help. i am really excited to get this machine dialed in -- as best as possible, anyway -- and appreciate the feedback.


Postby Ellejaycafe » Sep 13, 2016, 8:54 pm

What's the coffee you are using?
LMWDP #544

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Postby erics » Sep 13, 2016, 8:59 pm

Now you take this kindly -

You should have said Breville Oracle otherwise everybody(?) needs to do a Google search on "Oracle".
You should have said I'm using X grams of espresso although I now realize this machine is sorta automated in that respect.
You should have said I'm using beans from roaster XYZ that were roasted ? days before my use.
You should have said my machine duty cycle is as follows.

All of that said, you should start with, say, 16 grams of ground coffee and stop when you get 24 grams of product in ABOUT 25 seconds. You can work upwards from there, I.e., 26 grams, 28 grams etc., etc. Going past 32 grams invites trouble. Use the single spout portafilter with the stock double basket as that makes flow visualization much easier.

Reasonably fresh beans (3-5 days post roast) and proper puck preparation will greatly enhance your experience.

From the video, it appears yours beans are old, old, old and they are being overdosed.

Eric S.
E-mail: erics at erols dot com


Postby HoyaZot » Sep 13, 2016, 9:03 pm

Beans were roasted about a week ago (9-7-16), so are not old. Purchased locally. Machine automatically doses and tamps, but is reported to be a little heavy handed with the dosing.

Ellejaycafe wrote:What's the coffee you are using?

Local roaster - their espresso blend. I googled around to see if I could provide you guys some additional info, but they seem pretty small.

RyanJE wrote:Is it a new machine, have you had it a while? What beans and roast?
You need a scale.

New machine & see above.

No thoughts on diagnosing based on color, speed, etc? Scale is on my list...


Postby RyanJE » Sep 13, 2016, 9:13 pm

Is it a new machine, have you had it a while? What beans and roast?

You need a scale.
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....


Postby RyanJE » Sep 13, 2016, 9:44 pm

First you need to dial in your dose to the .1 gram and dial in a desired out put and brew time. It's hard enough getting consistency. Then look at perfecting other variables.

For example.. Pick an 18.0 g dose and shoot for 27g beverage weight in 30 seconds or so. Adjust grind until that happens consistency then change 1 variable at a time. I think this is the same thing Eric is stressing.

That all said, I'm not familiar with the he built in grinder and tamp on your machine? Most here would have opted for separate grinder and machine so you have control. I.e. A breville dual boiler and vario rather than an oracle.. Hopefully you still have control and consistency in your grinder...
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

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Postby canuckcoffeeguy » Sep 13, 2016, 10:17 pm

The freshly tamped puck looks very dark. I assume the beans are roasted quite dark. I would try different beans from a recommended roaster.

Since you're using the Oracle, you can't weigh your dose. (I don't think, but correct me if I'm wrong). I believe the Oracle uses automated dosing, around 20g or more.

Having said all of this, I would try grinding finer. I watched the video and the extraction looked quite fast. Grinding finer will slow the flow rate.


Postby Mrboots2u » Sep 14, 2016, 2:25 am

The oracle doses 21g ish plus or minus 0.3g. It's a pain to adjust altho if you look at Seattle coffee gear there are some clips on there about how to . The basket isn't set to use a dose of 16g . You need a different basket for it


Postby Mrboots2u » Sep 14, 2016, 6:05 am

Beans are now two months old , so may not be at their best ... dose will be 20-21g . Get some scales aim to get 40-44 g out in 25-35 seconds . Adjust grind via taste ....At the moment you are probabaly making a weak over extracted shot = bitter .
Id be wanting to use beans fresher than 9th July (IMHO) but that's subjective and up to you


Postby otb » replying to Mrboots2u » Sep 14, 2016, 6:19 am

The date is in US format (September 7th).