Help! Can't produce a decent espresso -seems to always get overextracted (bitter!)

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
Del_Nonno
Posts: 1
Joined: 4 years ago

#1: Post by Del_Nonno »

Greetings from Stockholm, Sweden.
I hope my post finds you all well.
I'm a rookie home Espresso brewer dreaming of a nice home Espresso.
My ideal Espresso is Italian/Napolitan and as such I'm grateful for tips following Italian standards, starting with 14g dosage.


I'm sporting the following setup:

Espresso machine (inherited from my father in law)
Gaggia Classic ("real" 2004 Classic version). This "oldie" has been set to 10BAR static (9 dynamically) thoroughly cleaned and upgraded with:
- new Gaggia Classic Stainless Steel Shower Holding Plate
- IMS Nanotech Gaggia Classic Shower Screen
- Rancilio V1 Steam Wand
- Mr Shades PID kit (set to 93 degrees Celsius)

Grinder
Eureka Mignon Specialita

Portafilter
Gaggia Naked Portafilter
with
Baristapro 15g (also have 20G) Nanotech Precision Portafilter Basket

Leveler/Tamper
Asso Coffee The Jack Leveler
(Bezzerra Tamper)

Acaia Lunar




My process in short:
I warm up the Gaggia with empty portafilter in and typically flush it before 1st use.
I Single Dose, weighting up 14 grams of espresso beans before grinding.
My ultimate end goal is to avoid tamping entirely and rather follow "Wholelatteloves" example using Asso Coffee The Jack Leveler only if possible.
Still require a light tamp.
While brewing I time the brew until measured target ratio from 1st drip (measured on the Acaia Lunar).
(target interval 25-30seconds)

My challenges:

As you can see by my upgrades I'm doing what I can to keep things constant.
Acaia Lunar, PID and Asso Leveler seem to keep me hopefully somewhat constant.

I struggle immensely to dial in the grinder size.
When I hit the extraction time target interval (1:2-1:3 ratio in 25-30s on 14grams dosage) I still get a very bitter over extracted espresso.
I have also tested lower ratios 1:15, 1:18) and tested with various beans of good quality.
Currently running super fresh Passalaqua Moana.
Irregardless of adjustment coffee remain bitter.
As I interpret the right adjustment would be to grind a bit coarser however then the Espresso flows way too fast and immediately gets sour, even with bare minimum micro adjustments.

Grind setting on the Specialita dial wheel is between "2 and -5" (true zero @-5):


I know for a fact that you can't just magically state exactly how things should be dialed for things to be perfect.
But having wasted to much coffee already I'm desperate for pro help and guidance.

Attaching video example:

Any additional pointers and/or techniques that you can give regarding my challenges will be highly appreciated.

All the best and many thanks in advance,
Jonas "Del Nonno"
Still dreaming of a very nice home Espresso.

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Nunas
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#2: Post by Nunas »

From your description of too bitter, then with a coarser grind too sour and too fast, I'd say it is the grinder. However, the grinder you list is known to have a very good capability for making fine adjustments. Is it possible you are moving the dial too far, resulting in too coarse after too fine?

DaveWCII
Posts: 41
Joined: 4 years ago

#3: Post by DaveWCII »

IME too bitter means you are letting the shot go too long. In your case "too long" means in the 30 seconds you are putting too much coffee in the cup and the last 5-10 seconds are very bitter. I've found that initially espresso is sour... in the first 10 seconds and bitter in the last 10 seconds. But they even each other out. So too bitter means you are hitting the last part too much. So grind finer to get to a 1:2 ratio, 15g coffee to 30g espresso in 30 seconds and see if that reduces the bitterness.

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slipchuck
Posts: 1485
Joined: 7 years ago

#4: Post by slipchuck »

Is the basket for single shot or double shot?
I would be using a double basket with aprox 18 grams of coffee
Single shots are much more difficult to do



Randy
“There is nobody you can’t learn to like once you’ve heard their story.”

pcrussell50
Posts: 4010
Joined: 15 years ago

#5: Post by pcrussell50 »

It is important to understand the difference between bitter and sour. They are two very different things, and in espresso have generally opposite causes.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

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Jeff
Team HB
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Joined: 19 years ago

#6: Post by Jeff »

From what I have read, some of the "big brands" stale very quickly, perhaps in a day or two after being opened.

There are some threads on suitable Italian and Italian-style roasts in the Coffee section. For example Espresso Napoletano and Thoughts

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Randy G.
Posts: 5340
Joined: 17 years ago

#7: Post by Randy G. »

I looked through this thread twice and did not see a mention from the OP as to what coffee is being used. When in doubt... try another coffee.
EspressoMyEspresso.com - 2000-2023 - a good run, its time is done

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jevenator
Posts: 640
Joined: 5 years ago

#8: Post by jevenator »

You might not just like the coffee or coffee is stale.

I've never pulled more than a 1:2 ratio on darker roasts and usually stay around 1:1.5. The pour isn't terribly bad. You have an uneven start which is due most likely to the finger grooming. A funnel and some WDT would help fix that. A grooming tool won't fix poor puck distribution especially near the bottom = uneven density/compression = channeling = uneven extraction.

I'm not familiar with Passalacqua Moana but it looks like it's a huge commercial brand...that usually translates to not the freshest coffee unless you have a roast date on the bags. Nitrogen sealed is ok for the first couple of days based on what I read but not ideal either.

That being said, you should be able to get decent tasting espresso with your setup so it might just be the coffee after all...

Also. when you tamp with your wrist parallel to the table you risk injury down the road and you are stressing your wrist out. Try to get it perpendicular (90 degree) to the table/portafilter and be as straight as possible. You don't need to much pressure either, just a slight nudge down at this angle + your upper body is usually enough.

jrham12
Posts: 269
Joined: 5 years ago

#9: Post by jrham12 »

Jonas,

First off, welcome to the forum!

From my reading of various discussions, most believe that the timing of the shot should start once you flip the switch and water hits the coffee puck rather than the timing your Acaia is giving you starting from the first drops in the cup. (Because extraction starts as soon as the water comes in contact with the puck.)

In watching your videos, it looks like it is about 6 seconds from the time you flip the switch to when the Acaia beeps (which I assume is when it starts the timer?) So you shot may be running a bit longer than you think.

I would perhaps try making the grind just a bit coarser and try to get the timing to 30 seconds beginning with the time you flip the switch and see if that makes a difference. I've never tried the Moana blend, but many times I pull darker roasts at a 1:1.5 ratio as jevenator suggests to try to avoid over-extracting the bitter components towards the end of the shot...

Good luck!
Josh

johnnylarue
Posts: 103
Joined: 13 years ago

#10: Post by johnnylarue »

I'll start with the disclaimer that what I'm about to say won't be helpful in the least :D

I feel like your Gaggia might be suffering from too many upgrades. My stock (late-90s) machine was actually relatively easy to control, especially compared to the Silvia I'm using now. It was just a matter of cycling the boiler, locking in the pf, counting 4 to 8 seconds after the ready light turned on, and pulling the shot. As long as I was using a somewhat forgiving classic Italian medium-dark blend, the results in the cup would range from good to great (albeit seldom godly.)

I've been tempted to dip my toes into the modding wormhole, but I always come away feeling like the end result will be a Dr. Moreau-esque abomination of nature-intriguing, sure, but with a limited chance at long-term success.

Ok I'll shut up now and leave this to people with more constructive attitudes. ;)

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