Happy Thanksgiving all!

Bret wrote:Another advantage to a dedicated bottomless PF is that you still have the other PF. If you do need to split a shot into two small cups, you can. I seldom ever do this, but I can. I get daily use out of the spouted PF another way entirely. I keep a blind basket in it, so I can do daily end-of-session(s) water back-flushes. (edit: I missed the bit where you already have extra PFs -- sorry bout that)

I'd suggest trying Josuma Malabar Gold. This is, so far, the best (only?) roast I have found for consistent pulls: tastes great, freezes well. Bags come sealed, not just rolled up. They roast and ship on Mondays for orders received by the prior Friday, delivery in 2-3 days. I order the 5 one-pound bags, put 4 in separate ziploc freezer bags, thaw a bag on the counter for a full 24 hours (Josuma recommended this approach via email). I left one bag in the freezer for 4+ months and it pulled identical to the first fresh bag.

$59 for five pounds and free shipping.

This would give you 5 lbs of consistent beans to work with.

I also get beans from a local roaster who happens to be a mile from my home. His roasts are terrific, and they are good for both espresso and drip, but he loves to tinker with his blend and roast, so while very good, I have to dial it in every time. The Josuma MBG is very consistent.

http://josumacoffee.bigcartel.com/produ ... d-espresso

https://www.josuma.com/distinctive-features/

http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2015/1 ... wood-city/

They recommend 205 deg for brew temp -- I found that it works well

So... for the 5# of the gold. Definitely seems nice but have some questions for you. I'm having a hard time dialing it in to their spec. At 13 grind size and 18g got ~39.5g out in ~27/28 sec. at 12 grind size 18g got ~37.5g out in ~30/31 sec. they recommend 30-35g in 27-30sec. I did raise my temp by the 4degree since that's as much as it will let me do. As for flavor I still feel a hint of that sourness and can't figure out how to shake it seems from any of the blends I got. Beginning to think it's me? Sour means under extracted so do I make it a longer shot or...? help

Bret wrote:I don't do anything complex with the timing: I just use the timer on the BDB. When I did use preinfusion, I just wrote down the total time and noted the preinfusion time separately (eg. 40 s, 7s PIF -- so the 33 seconds after PIF is represented if you really need that for some reason). As said before, it doesn't matter much how you do it so long as you do it consistently -- then timing changes with your system will be meaningful to you. As a result of the variations in how people count their times, the 30 second shot is not The Goal, just a ballpark.

I have the the BDB and the SGP. I moved to single dosing the SGP for a variety of reasons, among them being a consistent dose.

I use the 920, but I still use the old baskets from my 900. The 920 baskets are very good, though, so probably no need to get any VST puppies unless you need to some very specific smaller doses.

In the first 3-4 months, as the SGP burrs break in, you'll likely find that the grind setting will need to gradually move from the 10-12 range toward the 6-8 range (assuming same coffee). So if you get it all dialed in and then in a month it seems off, adjusting the grind down a bit might be helpful (and normal).

I wouldn't buy a calibrated tamper if I were you. I did, found it to be an expensive paperweight (and as valuable as paperweights are in the paperless era!). Tamping to full compression (as previously mentioned) works very well for me, is very consistent, and at the rate of shots I pull is not a repetitive motion injury risk. If you did dozens and dozens of pulls a day, getting dialed in with a consistent 30 lb tamp would be of much more value).

The better way to spend money on a tamper is to get a leveling tamper. I use the Lev Tamp from Kafatek -- it is fantastic, self leveling and depth adjusting for varying dose levels. I highly recommend it. I have not used any other leveling tamper, so I can't objectively compare it with others. But I have no reason to seek another tamper any more, ever.

I did play around a lot with pre-infusion, trying to emulate Slayer shots, etc. Eventually, though, I found that zero preinfusion worked best for me and the roasts I use. I prefer more traditional Italian style roasts, and pre-infusion didn't seem to add anything (for my taste). So without preinfusion in the equation at all, I dialed in 19-20g doses for 36g outputs in a range of ~30-38 seconds (ranging from size 6 to 3 on my fully broken in SGP).

Lately, I've stopped cutting of the shot at a specific weight, and instead am trying to get consistent about cutting it off just as blonding starts by watching the bottomless PF carefully. So I get varying outputs because of my variable judgement of blonding, age of coffee, etc. But the taste 'seems' more consistent.

A bottomless portafilter is a good purchase in my opinion (if you don't already have one). You'll get better feedback on your process by seeing what the pull looks like, and even when you are not dialing in, etc. it is still a lot of fun to see every time. I put a mirror and a light on my BDB so I can see the bottom of the PF easily while standing at the machine. Can link what I use if you are interested.

Bret, correct me if I'm wrong but you are set for volume shots not timed shots on the BDB correct? If so are you leaving the default volume or did you change it to something?

Bret wrote:Another advantage to a dedicated bottomless PF is that you still have the other PF. If you do need to split a shot into two small cups, you can. I seldom ever do this, but I can. I get daily use out of the spouted PF another way entirely. I keep a blind basket in it, so I can do daily end-of-session(s) water back-flushes. (edit: I missed the bit where you already have extra PFs -- sorry bout that)

I'd suggest trying Josuma Malabar Gold. This is, so far, the best (only?) roast I have found for consistent pulls: tastes great, freezes well. Bags come sealed, not just rolled up. They roast and ship on Mondays for orders received by the prior Friday, delivery in 2-3 days. I order the 5 one-pound bags, put 4 in separate ziploc freezer bags, thaw a bag on the counter for a full 24 hours (Josuma recommended this approach via email). I left one bag in the freezer for 4+ months and it pulled identical to the first fresh bag.

$59 for five pounds and free shipping.

This would give you 5 lbs of consistent beans to work with.

I also get beans from a local roaster who happens to be a mile from my home. His roasts are terrific, and they are good for both espresso and drip, but he loves to tinker with his blend and roast, so while very good, I have to dial it in every time. The Josuma MBG is very consistent.

http://josumacoffee.bigcartel.com/produ ... d-espresso

https://www.josuma.com/distinctive-features/

http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2015/1 ... wood-city/

They recommend 205 deg for brew temp -- I found that it works well

So trying to pull good shots and what I'm finding is with the BDB set to 30 sec pull time rather than volume I'm getting fairly close to the right does, HOWEVER, it seems to miss the pressure of 9Bars unless I grind finer and then the shot doesnt drop until 14+ sec. Guessing the beans are getting old at this point - the ones out of the freezer. Since you and I now have the exact setup SGP and BDB 920, what is your secret to a smooth balanced shot on the JMG? I've been trying and have the temp at 205 and tried both 19 and 20gm in the basket, depending on the grind at 7 or 8 I'm getting close to their suggestion of 30-35gm out in the 30 secs. The problem I'm trying to solve is this sour/acid undertone you can almost smell and in the few times I think it was gone a somewhat bitter kind of bity maybe burn? flavor shows through.

Having read quite a bit in recent days about how our SGP is subpar for the job, beginning to wonder if its the operator or the equipment?

Happy New Year!

Hi, Oleg,

Sorry to have missed so many of your posts, sir. I was traveling a bit and offline a bit more.

1) No, I don't use volumetric at all. It is inconsistent and unreliable. I do everything weight* based in terms of dose and measuring output. As for the pulls, I only use the manual control, with no preinfusion at all.

*in general, though I have been more recently trying a "stop at blonding" approach rather than stopping at a target weight. Jury is still out on this experiment, as discerning this point is difficult on some coffees, easier on others. (It seems easier on MBG)

2) You might try dropping temps down a degree at a time (for a few shots, so you can get a good idea of the effect).

3) Taste is very subjective (and some genetics are involved, too). I've not found a roast or recipe that gets me a shot that I consistently want to drink straight. I have a sweet tooth, and no matter how sweet some claim straight espresso can be, I've not experienced that so far. I have found that improving my technique and process control over time has greatly improved the flavor, so that I am now using approximately 1/3rd of the splenda I used to use in milk drinks, and can enjoy an unsweetened milk drink. My 23 and me report suggest that I might not be able to taste bitter flavors as much as others (interesting that genetics are that specific), so I'll likely tend to taste espresso as more sour than others would. But when I started, things were so sour I could not drink them straight at all (shots AND milk drinks).

4) My view on the 'recipes' is that they are guidelines. Good starting point sorta thing. There are so so many variables in play that it is almost certain that even dialing in the precise recipe dose, temp, timing, and weight on your set up will likely not taste the same as if you tasted the shot pulled on Josuma's set up. The suggestion from Josuma is, to me, a guide to grind finer and pull at higher temps than usual.

5) Since you are clearly inclined toward getting the details under control, I would definitely recommend getting a bottomless portafilter. This will 'unmask' any issues with tamp/grind concerns (levelness, channeling, tamp pressure). This is where you can easily have shot to shot variances that overwhelm any of the other variable you have brought under control. Your shot to shot variations almost certainly are much more significant than changing the temperature a degree, or the shot time by seconds in either direction.

6) A bottomless PF will reveal channeling, tamps that are not level, etc. A leveling tamper might be in your future, as it was in mine: the LevTamp is the biggest improvement in my process since getting a bottomless portafilter. I can now be assured of a level tamp, and I tamp to full compression, so those two variables are much less variable now

I would not stress yourself about matching the specific timing of the shots. Concern yourself with consistency in dose, grind, tamp, and output weight. Use the manual control to stop the pull at the desired output weight. Use your taste to guide adjustments temp or grind. A bottomless portafilter will let you know if you had channeling or an off-level tamp, and in those cases you don't really want to be adjusting other variables willy-nilly since a channeled shot, for example, will -- by definition -- not be a an extraction to judge taste, etc. The spouted portafilter hides this information from you, and can lead you to adjust things that should not change, or will not affect the outcome significantly.

Similarly, don't worry overmuch about the pressure: the peak initial pressure of my shots will vary from 9 to 9.5 bar, and there are other variables that affect this shot to shot, day to day. So if you are seeing variations within a half bar range, I think you are okay. If I get a shot that peaks at 8 bars, it means something is way off. Might be a 'new' bag of stale coffee for example.

For me, the three biggest improvements resulted from getting the BDB920/SGP, a bottomless portafilter, and the LevTamp. I would suggest the bottomless PF will give you the most benefit at this stage, so choosing between that or a leveling tamper, I'd get the PF. If you can do both, you'll get your process under control much faster than I did. I wish I had purchased the LevTamp MUCH earlier.

I've read the same things for years about the SGP. I have not had that experience, but my experience is limited to the SGP, so I have no basis for comparison -- YET. I'm getting a Monolith Flat soon: I've been single dosing the SGP for years, but now I will have a dedicated, specialized single dosing grinder for espresso, and the SGP will go back to full hopper usage for my Bonavita. So I will be able to see what difference a high end espresso grinder makes relative to the SGP.

I can say that I made vast improvements in my own results by getting my own process/consistency under control while using the SGP. I could have blamed the SGP at the outset, but without the other things mentioned above, I would have still had poor results with any grinder.

Start with full manual pulls, stopped based on output weight. Then you have control over dose in, weight out, and then you can vary that recipe some to change taste. Add a bottomless PF when you can for more refinement of your technique and grind.

I'm pulling MBG now with a bottomless PF, manually, timing the shots by watching the PF for a sudden shift to a thin flow. My initial pressures range from midway between 9-9.5 bar (I log that as 9+) to 9.5 bar --note, there is some variance from machine to machine so, as they say, YMMV. I have a 20G dose at size 3 (on a well broken in SGP, so your size might be more in the 5-7 range as a guess). My pulls are at 205 deg, run 40-45 seconds for 36-38g out (since I am ending the extraction based on blonding rather than weight). The beans are 4 days off roast, so I expect these numbers to change as the beans move into optimal age, and then continue changing as the age increases beyond that. This end result suits my taste.

Off topic somewhat: you might try this interesting experiment if you haven't already: take a small spoon and 'swipe' it thru the stream, taste it, and repeat thru an extended duration shot pull. (Some do this by switching a series of small cups under the pull). This can give you a good idea of the change in taste as the shots pull, and how much contribution each section of the pull makes to the final shot. You might find it guides you to lengthen or shorten your shot time. I found that it led me to cutting the shot at the sudden thinning/blonding time.

Happy New Year to you, too!

To spend a little bit of your money, should you go for the bottomless PF:

I use this mirror, place down low near the drip tray on the left, so I can easily see the bottom of the PF while standing at the machine.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B002BX5ULS/


I use this light, placed up and behind the magnetic tamper mount, pointing down into the white cup on the scale/drip tray. The white cup bounces enough light back up the the bottom of the PF so that I can clearly see what is happening (via the mirror). If you are not using a white cup, etc, the light can be positioned elsewhere. Note: snag some rechargeable batteries for this puppy, as it burns thru them pretty fast. And don't forget to turn it off!

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003Y3VAYA/

Other mirrors & lights can work, too. I used to use this light:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B004AKGVJK/

It uses C cell batteries, lasts a long time, but was awkward to position in my set up.

Ha awesome, thanks for getting back to me. My issue seems to be consistency when I'm trying it out. Someone keeps pulling me away and breaks my mojo. I found that a smaller dose with tighter grind seems to remove some of the flavor issues but then the shot doesn't drop until about 14 seconds which is probably too long. The temperature doesn't seem to throw 5hings off too much but maybe I'm all over the place.

It seems if I adjust my settings just right I can get their suggested recipe in the range but again it's very difficult to know what I'm tasting because I never had their shot. I've had a shot recently that was so good but thinking it may have been a longer one but so balanced. Anyway I'll keep playing with MG but after done will try the ladro again, seemed to like it.

Next thing to try will be the manual pull with shutoff at desired weight. You were spot on I'm in the 6/7 range now for the grind size. I need to get a funnel for wdt and will and still am consider the bottomless as we'll a show levtamp. That's a little coin for the moment

Thanks again, for now I'll keep trying and working on the latte art which i didn't realize this steam wand helps so much with in stretching the milk. The infuser would scream and screech and make me work way too hard. This one I just need to find the sweet spot and boom.

Thanks again!

I'm about half way through my 5lb bag of gold and here is what I've settled on: 18.5g in, extracting at 204 F and aiming for 27-28s and 27g out. The bean takes a finer grind than I normally use, which results in some large clumps, but they are quite loose and break apart easily. I do find it to be finicky overall, with the shot time/weight +/- a couple seconds every time. I also find it roasted a bit too dark for my taste, but my wife likes the more robust european flavor. My best shots are very chocolaty with a bit of wood. It rarely tastes sour unless there was some channeling going on. I probably won't reorder when I run out

Ok so maybe I'm not crazy and it is a bit more dark/bitterish than I prefer. Once done will go back to ladro to see if the bdb does it justice. Found that to be much more mellow.

Hey guys so I just received my tidaka funnel and started WDT. I swear the flavor improved dramatically. I know everyone says the littlest thing floats the result from bad to good and back but really? Am I just mentally favoring this or could the wdt really sway flavor so much. I feel like bitterness and tangyness/sour notes are gone and now you taste more good stuff. I'm using malabar gold dosing 19g taking about 30-35g out as per their suggestion in the 30secs. If it's not just in my head then I've just been made a covert