DC wrote:If that's the case, perhaps I am way over-dosed; the bolt routinely drills a hole in my pucks (before and after extracting). I'll do some guesstimated down-dosing and re-post if that solves my problems.

I used to be in the exact same situation... I feel my shots are improved now. At that point I was at 18-20g dose. With a coarse grind, you may be at less weight?

You mentioned the flow stopping occasionally at 20 seconds.... that could be from overcompression of the swelled grounds against the shower screen choking the shot.

FYI - Your unbranded "double" looks like an La Marzocco triple.

I usually do not use the Rancilio basket, I will pull one this afternoon and note the relation to the ridge. I use the "LM" ridgeless 14g double basket. My Torr tamper is finishing about flush with the rim. The tamper is ~12mm thick at the outer edge.

Thanks very much for your help, It'd be really useful to know how full the rancilio basket is for you.

By the way, I posted a video of the effect I see towards the end of this thread, along with all the things I'd tried to fix it. I know it screams 'distribution issues' but nothing I've tried has affected it consistently in the weeks since then (bearing in mind I've fixed the donut extraction and sprites issues)

Dave

Dave-

Okay, I looked at your extraction video and the pictures of your spent puck in the other thread. I would say that you are grinding much coarser than I am nowadays. FWIW, I think there are several levels of grind/dose that will work... let your tastebuds be your guide.

I got out the Rancilio double basket for you this afternoon, and I have the 'jitters' right now .

Here's what I found, I didn't get to the perfect extraction, the extraction was a bit more blond at the cutoff than I typically do, but the cup and the appearance in the cup did not suffer at all. I had to fine up the shot and reduce the dose to get to the same headspace I have been using for the "LM" ridgeless basket. The Rancilio is a few mm shorter. As I worked the dose/grind down, I went from about the middle of the basket ridge, the bottom of the ridge, and completely below the ridge, but please note that I am using a convex tamper.

• Basket, Dose, Beverage weight, Brew Ratio, Notes
  "LM" ridgeless double, 16.3g, 25.8g, 63.2%, Rocky at 8, basket almost full after WDT, Torr tamper about flush with basket rim at final tamp
  Rancilio double, 14.6g, 26.2g, 55.7%, Rocky at 8, basket almost full after WDT, tamper proud at tamp, no screw impression on lock, heavy screen/screw impression after spent, shot ran fast 20-23 sec
  Rancilio double, 14.3g, 23.8g, 60.0%, Rocky at 7, basket less full after WDT, tamper slightly proud at tamp, no screw impression on lock, no screen/screw impression after spent, 25-27 sec
  Rancilio double, 13.0g, 27.6g, 47.1%, Rocky at 6, basket well below full after WDT, tamper flush at tamp, no screw impression on lock, no screen/screw impression after spent, 25-27 sec, appearance of the end of extraction was a bit blond, cup looked good though

Thanks for doing that, that's very useful info. Off to work on my down-dosing

Dave

Think I've made a little progress. By Jeff's measurements this dose would be around the 14.5g mark (puck level with bottom of ridge after tamping). Pulled half a dozen shots since last post and no dreaded bubble!

The harshness has gone from the shots, but they are still a little thin.

«missing video»

I think I need to slow the flow down a bit towards the end of the pull, but it's already at a grind that's giving me a ristretto-range shot.

Dave

DC wrote:Think I've made a little progress. By Jeff's measurements this dose would be around the 14.5g mark (puck level with bottom of ridge after tamping). Pulled half a dozen shots since last post and no dreaded bubble!

Weight varies, blend to blend, roast to roast, and with grind. I'm not saying run out and buy a scale... I'm just saying it does.

When I overdosed, I had a similar big cone bubble like in your earlier video (shot 2 above).

Shot looks good, nice even beading. It was hard to see the actual blonding point in the video. Why do you want to slow it down, did you feel it blonded early?

jesawdy wrote:Why do you want to slow it down, did you feel it blonded early?

Yeah, I stopped it earlier than I normally would because I began to see dead spots around the cone and the flow seemed to get fast and 'watery.' Thought that might have contributed to the thin taste.

DC

jggall01 wrote:Actually, the 60 second wait is probably increasing the temp. Because of heat stored in the element, the boiler temp continues to rise for a minute or so after the heater shuts down (i.e. light goes off).

When Rancilio switched to the lower temp brew tstat, I think some of the old temp surfing info became outdated. The testing I did on the new Silvia suggests that shots pulled near the peak of the temp cycle give about 195F temperature at the puck.

So I agree with the suggestion on the 60 seconds, but for a different reason

Jim

Whatever the extra 60 seconds does, it works! Today I tried again. I ran into some other problems, but I knew immediately after the first attempt with the 60 second wait after the light goes off that the BITTERNESS WAS GONE!

Since I was having almost no distribution problems by the end of the last session, I decided to forgo the naked PF today & use the PF & double basket that came with Silvia. I was using Decaf Black Cat. It was roasted 15 days ago. But the last 11-12 days they have been stored vacuum packed in a mason jar. So they should be better than a normal 15 day old, but how much better is a guess. One surprise ... part way thru I was using unexpectedly fine grind settings on Rocky, so I re-checked its zero point. It's changed from 0 to -1, so I was 1 notch coarser than I thought. I'll specify all grind settings relative to the actual zero point.

I always use a 30 lb. tamp.

First try was 12g of coffee, with Rocky set to +8. I pulled 2 oz. in *9* seconds! This was a shock, since it was so much faster than the last time, although that was with the LM triple basket. So I tried again, changing to 14g. I pulled 2 oz. in *14* seconds; this time I got some crema & tasted it ... no bitterness, not a great flavor, but better than any I'd gotten recently. Both these had dryer pucks than I've been getting, the latter even falling out of the PF in 1 piece.

I tried 14g again, with Rocky at +7. It was again 14 sec., which was surprising, & similar flavor.

I set Rocky even finer to +5. This only slowed things down to 16 sec. & tasted slightly better. But I did notice a DEEP indent in the center of the puck before pulling the shot.

So I dropped back down to 12g with Rocky still at +5 ... 22 sec.! I had expected a faster pull with the smaller dose. Maybe the slowdown was due to the extra headroom above the puck? IAE, I wasn't complaining! I did notice a very slight indentation in the puck center before the pull, but should I go even smaller than 12g? The best news was it was a drinkable espresso! There wasn't a great variety of flavors, i.e. it lacked complexity, though. BTW, the puck is back to being a little soupy after the pull.

It was time to try the "real" coffee, i.e. not decaf. I used El Diablo, which was roasted & stored the same as the Decaf Black Cat. I pulled a shot the same as the previous. It took the same time. It had the same general flavor properties as the decaf, but was definitely better & absolutely drinkable. It had a strong roast flavor I wasn't crazy about, but it's a much darker roast than I like, which probably explains this.

Finally, I tried a Cafe Crema with the El Diablo ... 12g, Rocky at +10. I pulled 5 oz. in 20 sec., then added about 5 oz. of hot water. This was actually a very nice drink. I could really see making these regularly with a bean more to my taste!

So, finally, I feel really good where I'm at, espresso-wise! I was beginning to wonder whether espresso just wasn't for me!

But, I do wonder why I have to grind so fine (+5 on Rocky)? This doesn't leave a lot of room to play with if I want to try ristrettos! Could this be because of lack of freshness of the beans?

I guess I'll at least try using 11g.

Any suggestions for slowing down the pull longer than 22 sec.?

Next up ... I roasted some SM Monkey Blend to Vienna about 48 hours ago. I'll give it at least another day or 2 first.

BTW, one other thing I noticed. With the triple basket, after tamping I could turn it upside down & shake it to remove loose grinds. But today, using the double basket, simply turning it over was likely to end up with all the coffee dropping out. Is this typical of the double basket, or could something else be going on?

Thanks everybody for your help!

Dave

dmorgen wrote:So I dropped back down to 12g with Rocky still at +5 ... 22 sec.! I had expected a faster pull with the smaller dose. Maybe the slowdown was due to the extra headroom above the puck? IAE, I wasn't complaining! I did notice a very slight indentation in the puck center before the pull, but should I go even smaller than 12g?

12g? Still with the double basket? That's a low dose! Does anyone else dose this low in a double basket? It might have been slower than your higher dose because the higher one channeled.

I find it hard to go back to spouts after using the naked pf unless I've had 4 or 5 good shots in a row. This hasn't happened yet with Silvia

Any suggestions for slowing down the pull longer than 22 sec.?

Dose a bit more and go back to the naked pf for a bit to make sure you aren't getting any channeling. Personally I wouldn't try 11g, it seems far too low - but someone correct me if I'm wrong...

....using the double basket, simply turning it over was likely to end up with all the coffee dropping out. Is this typical of the double basket, or could something else be going on?

It's because your puck is losing adhesion to the sides of the basket. It usually happens if you slip with the tamp, if you try to correct a canted tamp, or if you tap too hard on the basket or accidentally knock it. If I'm way off-level I find it best to knock out the puck, wipe the basket clean, and start again. I don't think it's anything to do with the basket per se. I've had this happen a lot recently, which I blame on my choice of tamper handle (radical pro)... I had a lot of canted tamps which I mistakenly tried to correct at the last minute.

DC

I use the double baket and dose at 15-15.5 grams.

216* on the PID

Two of the most important factors in pulling a good shot from the Silvia;

jggall01 PID kit and a Mazzer Mini E