Frozen coffee beans - espresso brew temperature? - Page 2

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BaristaBob
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#11: Post by BaristaBob »

HB wrote:I've never tried it. But if the grind setting shift is that dramatic, it'd be easy to figure out how long it takes to reach room temperature conditions. I'd guess a minute or two, assuming the beans were spread out on a metal tray.
I have been freezing my beans per dose for about a year now. I was one of those that started a thread here on freezing beans and subsequent quality in the cup. As others including Mike have noticed a change in grind setting upon freezing (going finer), and improved flavor in the cup...the temperature out of the grinder is a moot-point, at least in my experimentation using my Rancilio Rocky grinder. By IR temperature gun, my beans go into the grinder at around 4F and after 15 seconds of grinding 18g of beans hit the pf at 76F...basically room temp. IMO, the flavor improvement is all about grind particle size distribution (which is my scientific research background) and being able to grind finer produces increased EY. YUM!
Bob "hello darkness my old friend..I've come to drink you once again"

Deebo
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#12: Post by Deebo »

No temperature adjustment necessary. As others have noted, frozen beans will grind different than room temperature, but that's the only correction you need to make.

I have been grinding straight out of the freezer for at least 2 years... no issues, only improvements.
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JohnB.
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#13: Post by JohnB. »

It's nice to see a new question concerning freezing roasted coffee/grinding "frozen" beans come up. I started freezing my roasted beans 11 years ago this month. Back then I always let the beans come up to room temp before grinding but after running out & using the beans straight out of the freezer a few times without issues I switched. As mentioned it does require a coarser grind setting although I wouldn't consider the difference to be a drastic change from room temp beans. No issues with brew temp as the grounds are fully warmed up by the time they hit the hot pf.
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mike guy
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#14: Post by mike guy »

I'm kind of curious about those saying it requires a finer grind setting. My experience is that you need to grind coarser, and that of most articles on this topic. Which makes sense, as the beans shatter and produce more fines. You guys are grinding finer?

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LBIespresso
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#15: Post by LBIespresso replying to mike guy »

I for one have to set the grind much coarser. On my HG-1 with CC Hologram I go from 11.8 with room temp beans to 13 or 13.2 with grinding from frozen. I freeze 10 single dose jars on day 5 post roast.

For comparison if you don't have an HG-1 I grind at 12.2 on day 4 working my way to 11.8 as the beans age and they seem to settle in there. So grinding frozen has a bigger effect than aging.

I only recently tried the whole freezing thing so I am still trying to figure out a process that works best for me but so far at least now I always have backup in the freezer if the shipment is delayed or I just run out early.
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Deebo
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#16: Post by Deebo »

mike guy wrote:I'm kind of curious about those saying it requires a finer grind setting. My experience is that you need to grind coarser, and that of most articles on this topic. Which makes sense, as the beans shatter and produce more fines. You guys are grinding finer?
You know, I've been doing it for so long that I honestly don't remember if I'm going finer or coarser... I almost want to pull a dose out of the freezer and find out.
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JohnB.
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#17: Post by JohnB. replying to Deebo »

Same here so I figured that I'd better check. I left some beans out on the counter yesterday & pulled a couple shots grinding the dose at my normal "frozen" bean setting on the k30. The shots definitely poured faster, not a lot, (about 6 seconds faster to blonding) so Michael is correct that it's coarser not finer for the cold beans.
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thoraxe (original poster)
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#18: Post by thoraxe (original poster) replying to JohnB. »

I think this might be oversimplifying the situation. It's an accurate analysis of what happens with respect to shot time (eg: the room temp beans don't grind as fine).

However, the big benefit to freezing from everything I've read has to do with uniformity of distribution. So, while the shot pulls slower (finer) when grinding frozen, IIRC you can still go finer still because now you also have much more even distribution and then can additionally get better uniform extraction.

Or maybe not. Who knows. I'm definitely finer on my frozen beans but I've never tested back to back.

mike guy
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#19: Post by mike guy »

Most of the particle analysis I've seen shows a bimodal distribution of particles vs fines. I don't mean to be any kind of authority on this, just what I've seen. My experience is that it's easy to get over extracted coffee when grinding from frozen and I've noticed that shorter shot times yield more balanced coffee. This makes sense to me as you are getting more extraction from the fines and the water doesn't need to spend as much time pulling extraction out of the bigger particles. Every coffee extracts differently though, so I have no doubt there are coffees were grinding finer is the way to go. For lighter roasts, I tend to gravitate towards shorter 25 second shot times, where as it seems the trend elsewhere for light roasts on slayers or what have you is a 40+ second shot.

It also should be noted that my shot pressure is around 7.5 PSI, so it just occurred to me we are probably not talking apples to apples. I've also been playing around with a 20 - 30 second preinfusion bloom, so while my pressure shot time is only 20-25, the entire time is not comparable either.

Now that some of the big names (howell and rao) have come out in favor of grinding from frozen, I expect to see a lot more information come out as people learn what to do with it.

lucasd
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#20: Post by lucasd »

You need to grind coarser to keep frozen beans with similar time.

I have not found significant difference for grinding frozen. Maybe I even found out it has negative effect with conical grinder.
I simply store beans in freezer, but use room temperature for grinding (take package from freezer).

The results may be different with big flats...