FoodSaver mason jar sealer. Any good? - Page 4

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
User avatar
homeburrero
Team HB
Posts: 4863
Joined: 13 years ago

#31: Post by homeburrero »

LaDan wrote:What's the best way inserting the beans into a wine bottle? One by one? lol
:lol:

It has a long thin tube, so you stick that under the lid into the beans and give it one long and a few short blasts, then pull it out while pressing on the cap.

I'm not sure it would be ideal for on-counter storage, partly because of the expense. I figure 5 or 10 cents per use.
Anvan wrote:At 95% vacuum, could you even get the lid off?
Probably not much harder - is still only 14 psi. Unlike what you see in the SciFi movies, even an outer space vacuum is not a huge difference from 1 atm - is only 14.7 psi.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

User avatar
LaDan (original poster)
Posts: 963
Joined: 13 years ago

#32: Post by LaDan (original poster) »

JohnB. wrote:I don't know where you got the "better then nothing" idea? Vacuum sealing & freezing is as good as extended storage is going to get. ...
Better than nothing, I mean freezing vs. freezing/vacuuming. I meant that ADDING the vacuum to the freezing is better than just freezing. I should have been more clear about that "nothing" meant freezing with no extra steps. So we really in agreement here.

You said that adding vacuuming to the freezing extends the life of roast after the thawing, if I understood you correctly? Well, that's good news then. Anything to extend the life and flavor while out on the counter is beneficial.
Anvan wrote:Hang on a second. Yes, we don't want oxidation, so getting the excess air out of a plastic bag seems reasonable - you're taking out the slack and limiting the remaining air that can oxidize the coffee.

But especially in a hard-sided Mason jar, there's another factor besides oxygen. Remember that we're trying to slow down the out-gassing of the carbon dioxide held within the beans. Pretty much, no CO2 = no crema, and such "dead" coffee is considered stale. Freezing, if we get the temperature down enough, can slow the carbon dioxide loss, and that's a good thing.

But we would undo the freezing benefits if a vacuum in the jar sucks CO2 out of the beans.

So, we're really looking for a technology that stores coffee under pressure - with some kind of inert gas replacing the oxygen - plus the freezing effect that slows or stops the loss of the CO2. But a vacuum in a Mason jar seems to be taking us the wrong direction.
I'm glad you brought it up Anvan, I was wondering if there are cons to this. The question though is, do we know when a CO2 and/or other aromas are "locked" inside the roasted bean and when it can be released? Grinding obviously help in releasing these gases. Wetting and extracting obviously too. But when the bean is whole, not heated up to 200F, not grounded into 40-200 microns size particles, is it locked in, or free to go out. Yes, I am aware of the de-gassing during the 2 days resting period after roasting day.

I'm thinking as I am typing.. I'm thinking that part of getting stale is the oils going rancid. They go rancid with contact with oxygen. If oxygen can go IN, to rancid the oils, then just the same CO2 can go out..

But, if the rancidification(sp?) happens mainly at the outer layers of the bean, then it means that removing air from the jar would only "suck" CO2 from the outer layers. ???

I really don't know about this process and how porous or "leaky" a bean is. Anyone want shed some light on this?

.

User avatar
spressomon
Posts: 1904
Joined: 12 years ago

#33: Post by spressomon »

No empirical data to back this up...just casual observance based upon my experience...

If I take beans within a few days of roasting, vac seal them in the typical plastic vac seal bags and leave them at room temp they will most often degas and balloon the bag...giving the appearance the bag seal has failed.

Whereas doing the same procedure and placing them in my freezer (0F to -10F) doesn't cause the ballooning of the bag.

I've been using the FoodSaver wide mouth lid vac attachment on wide mouth glass "mason" type quart jars successfully for storing whole roasted beans for some time. If, even at "only" 0F to -10F, the outgassing of CO2 is stopped then maybe normal vac'd atmosphere inside the glass jar isn't a factor.

Just my 2 cents...
No Espresso = Depresso

Anvan
Posts: 518
Joined: 13 years ago

#34: Post by Anvan »

LaDan wrote:...I really don't know about this process and how porous or "leaky" a bean is...
For sure, neither do I. I wouldn't think there's any necessary relationship between the rate of oxidation versus the CO2 "leakiness" - it might be, for example, that the carbon dioxide creation or release mechanism is purely cellular and has little or nothing to do with pressure and everything to do with elapsed time and temperature. The pressure, however, has everything to do with oxidation, but only if vacuum is the methodology for removing the O2. If the O2 is simply replaced by an inert gas, then the pressure factor probably goes out the window.

This is why I'd put my bets on the JohnB and the other posters who have years of experience freezing beans long-term. Although I freeze coffee all the time, it's for much shorter periods and without any special gasses, vacuum or other treatments. I have never sensed any degradation after such short-term storage, but I fully expect that greater durations would require improved processes.

Armijo
Posts: 2
Joined: 11 years ago

#35: Post by Armijo »

homeburrero wrote: I combine that with freezing, but not with vacuum, and I really don't see how doing both would be necessary. I think if vacuum was good Illy would have done that (they use inert gas under pressure.)
I certainly can't speak to any reason Illy does anything but I believe their use case is different from what we're talking about. (I'm guessing of course) Illy packs things for maximum shelf stability at room temperature. By some accounts (I have no personal experience) at least Illy beans go stale very fast after opening, can anyone verify this? This would be a good test case.

I'm thinking a good start to the experiment would go something like
  • 1 group of beans at room temp, no vacuum and no special flush
    1 group of beans at room temp, vacuum sealed
    1 group of beans at room temp, flushed with wine saver
    1 group of beans at room temp, flushed with wine saver and vacuum sealed

    1 group of beans frozen, no vacuum and no special flush
    1 group of beans frozen, vacuum sealed
    1 group of beans frozen, flushed with wine saver
    1 group of beans frozen, flushed with wine saver and vacuum sealed
maybe stagger multiples of each group for sampling at (random guess here) 1, 3 and 6 month periods. I'm certainly interested to see how this would turn out and willing to try it. It would probably be better to have more than one tongue involved.

or maybe we just do what's easiest and get on with our life ;)

i'm willing to volunteer but currently live in an Aeropress only house so true Espresso testing is best left to someone else. I'm also new to actually enjoying coffee ( blasphemy here, I know ), maybe 1 year in.

@LaDan : thanks for the welcome!

Post Reply