I'm still dialing in my Profitec 700/T64 grinder. I'm finding that the flow starts very quickly after I start. Even with pre-infusion it starts within 1 second, yet can takes 40 seconds + to reach 50 ml/blonding point. This is generally 18g in a VST basket at 9 bar on the gauge. I've tried varying the amount and grind - finer grind and less dose and opposite. It does vary the final end point time but if I get it to begin after 5-6 seconds, I get less than 30 ml in 40 seconds. Taste is normally good with decent 'tiger stripes' with PF (50 in 30). Do I just ignore this? Or should I massively under dose and grind finer?

What's the shot weight in grams? Measuring the shot by ml isn't really done anymore, as the volume will vary based on several factors (coffee used, roast age, roast level, grinder, machine, etc..).

A few questions:
- How old is your coffee? 2-12 days old is a good range (days 5-8 are often the peak). Anything past 14-21 days is going to start causing problems.
- What coffee are you using? Something from 49th (Epic or Old school), Fratello (Godfather), Phil & Seb, or similar is a good place to start.

Having the water start within 1 second is very weird. Typically a e61 takes 4-6 seconds to build pressure and start the shot. I'm suspecting you may be using some supermarket coffee and having to grind very fine to slow things down, yet are also getting seepage right off the bat.

Without seeing anything, for very generic starting point, I'd aim for:
- 18g in : 36g out,
- in 25-30 seconds.
- temp around the 200F/93.5c range.
- assuming you have a fresh, reasonable quality coffee

Beyond that:
If you can make a video of you pulling a shot, that will be very useful for us trying to help (Preferably with a bottomless portafilter).

Mine start beading around 2 seconds, and I get textbook pulls. However, I think this is generally a trait of a flat burr grinder as there are less fines generally as it has a narrower distribution range (need to confirm).

however, yours does sound like stale coffee but do please update.

Kellyk wrote:I'm still dialing in my Profitec 700/T64 grinder. I'm finding that the flow starts very quickly after I start. Even with pre-infusion it starts within 1 second, yet can takes 40 seconds + to reach 50 ml/blonding point. This is generally 18g in a VST basket at 9 bar on the gauge. I've tried varying the amount and grind - finer grind and less dose and opposite. It does vary the final end point time but if I get it to begin after 5-6 seconds, I get less than 30 ml in 40 seconds. Taste is normally good with decent 'tiger stripes' with PF (50 in 30). Do I just ignore this? Or should I massively under dose and grind finer?

Try a different basket. I own 3 VST baskets of various sizes. None of them play well with my Giotto.

What do you do to distribute grinds? Possible channeling before the puck swells?

nickw wrote:What's the shot weight in grams? Measuring the shot by ml isn't really done anymore, as the volume will vary based on several factors (coffee used, roast age, roast level, grinder, machine, etc..).

A few questions:
- How old is your coffee? 2-12 days old is a good range (days 5-8 are often the peak). Anything past 14-21 days is going to start causing problems.
- What coffee are you using? Something from 49th (Epic or Old school), Fratello (Godfather), Phil & Seb, or similar is a good place to start.

Having the water start within 1 second is very weird. Typically a e61 takes 4-6 seconds to build pressure and start the shot. I'm suspecting you may be using some supermarket coffee and having to grind very fine to slow things down, yet are also getting seepage right off the bat.

Without seeing anything, for very generic starting point, I'd aim for:
- 18g in : 36g out,
- in 25-30 seconds.
- temp around the 200F/93.5c range.
- assuming you have a fresh, reasonable quality coffee

Beyond that:
If you can make a video of you pulling a shot, that will be very useful for us trying to help (Preferably with a bottomless portafilter).

49th Parallel Epic and Old School being used - not supermarket. Roasted within last two weeks, closer to three by end of use. 18 g in. 40 grams out (+-) in less than 30 seconds (25) but flow starts in < 2 seconds. 92 C. I've just started a 49th Papua New Guinea Sero Bebes this morning. I cranked the grinder considerably finer and kept it at 18g. I also just received and started to use (yesterday) an Eazytamp pro. It may have made a difference although the previous tamper was a 58.4 Reg from 49th. I'll try a couple of shots tonight and take a video with the bottomless PF. I may try another basket although I did try it earlier with no appreciable change.

I find it strange because there was never an issue with my Expobar Brewtus that I used for 5 years+. It started at 6-8 seconds and one could actually see the pressure go to 4 quickly then up to 10 thereafter. Used the same basket and grinder (at end).

I level with finger. Distribution seems good out of grinder. Using the bottomless PF there are rarely spritzers and it seems to be an even flow. A possibility though. I'll attempt to even it up and using the new tamper to ensure a level tamp may be the ticket.

I wouldn't compared the Brewtus dwell time to the new machine unless it was a rotary pump version.

It was.

Thanks for sharing. I'd take the coffee out of the equation then.

Although imho you'll get best the best taste/results if you use by 10-12 days post roast. I freeze mine in jars so I can always pull coffee out and have it the 4-8day window which many consider the peak (many threads on both roast age and freezing.) 49th's PNG Sero Bebos is delicious by the way

Anyways, sounds like there is some other issue going on then. Especially if you didn't have this problem before. Happycats idea of channeling is probably right. Although I'm thinking it could be headspace related (since you didn't have the problem before). Have you tried the nickel test?

On an e61, you should have 2-5mm of headspace (room between the tamped coffee and the shower screen). A nickel is just under 2mm, so try placing a nickel on the tamped grounds and lock the pf into the group head. Then pull the pf. If the nickel imprints the coffee you need more headspace. As an extreme the tamped coffee could be hitting the screen and literally cracking the puck before you pull the shot.

Are you using the same grinder as the Brewtus?

Another possibility could be that the water debit (water flow rate without coffee or portafilter) is greater on the Profitec. How does the water flush compare between the two machines?