First time - La Marzocco Linea Mini w/ Ceado E37S - Espresso lacks intensity and body

#1: Post by **dionaeafan** » July 14th, 2020, 1:11 pm

Finally feel like I dialed in my grind, but would love thoughts and feedback as I felt like the body and intensity of the shot was lacking... Wish I had a refractometer to quantify TDS, but suffice to say it didn't have a lingering finish and lacked mouthfeel.

Using CEADO E37S at almost the finest settings (~0.75 number) given on the stock machine.

14 g in -> 26 g out 26 seconds total

Using convex tamp supplied by La Marzocco. Could it be my distribution (just did palm tapping)?

Attached is photo of the puck with a hole in the center... though I've heard you're not supposed to read into this too much). Have a video too, but couldn't find how to upload.

Any thoughts or suggestions here would be greatly appreciated.

#2: Post by **mgwolf** » July 14th, 2020, 2:27 pm

What coffee are you using and how fresh is it? Try using the 18 gm basket and put 17-18 gms in it. Buy a distribution tool (they're cheap and very helpful). Tamping hard will not have too much of an effect. I've never used a Ceado, but you should adjust your settings by timing your shot and not from the numbers (although the numbers will help you get back to that spot). You say you're almost at "the finest setting". On any good grinder, you should be able to grind so fine that it will "choke" your shot, ie nothing will get through. Adjust your grind so that your shots are pouring in 25-30 seconds from the time you flip the lever.

#3: Post by **luckydragon** » July 14th, 2020, 2:52 pm

I personally would read the hole in the puck to be a sign of channeling, i.e., you had an area of lower resistance in your puck, causing more water to pass through that area, leading to over-extraction in the centre, and under-extraction around the sides. That could explain why your shot tasted weak and had thin body.

Are you using a bottomless portafilter? That's the best way to visually diagnose extraction issues caused by grinds distribution.

#4: Post by **dsblv** » July 14th, 2020, 3:24 pm

That's definitely channeling. For best results, I'd recommend using 17-18g of coffee with the Mini. The extra coffee will improve taste and help minimize channeling. And, I'd recommend using WDT to ensure the grounds are evenly distributed in the portafilter.

You don't need to do anything fancy to distribute the grounds. I originally used a leveling tool but found it really wasn't helping. Since then, I've been using a toothpick to distribute the grounds and am seeing much better results. There are many postings on WDT you can reference to find an effective distribution tool.

July 14th, 2020, 3:51 pm

@mgwolf, Thanks. I'm using LittleTreeCoffee Colombian roast. It was frozen two days after roasting though (and freezing has been going well for me). Do you think higher dosing in a bigger basket can reduce the channeling/distribution issue? I agree I need to make sure shot time is right for dose.

@luckydragon, @dsblv, I will run bottomless portafilter next time and will followup on how this goes. Will also try higher dose (thanks, Dave!) I can test out the WDT too. I've seen some of the postings and there's some variety here... with your toothpick approach, are you stirring grounds directly in portafilter or a separate container?

I am getting the Marzocco home solo tamper today which has a distribution side. I'll see if this helps, but from your experience it sounds like it may not make a huge difference.

#6: Post by **Jeff** » July 14th, 2020, 4:01 pm

I've found that the finer the wires, the better my pucks. I started with a toothpick, then a 1 mm cake tester, now 0.35 mm acupuncture needles. Even the toothpick made a significant difference. How and where to stir for your grinder and technique will be revealed by a bottomless PF pretty quickly. If you video your shot from below, the replay will often show things you didn't see live. Donuts, dead spots, spurts and all become glaringly evident in the video.

#7: Post by **yakster** » July 14th, 2020, 4:09 pm

In order to share a video, upload it to Youtube and then embed the video in your message.

#8: Post by **nguye569** » July 14th, 2020, 4:19 pm

I'd also look into whether your grind is too fine. On my ceado E37J, not S, I'm closer to the halfway mark than I am the end of the adjustment scale. If your grind is too fine, the water will find a way to force itself out.

#9: Post by **dsblv** » July 14th, 2020, 4:21 pm

I found this video from Artisti Coffee to be tremendously useful in solving extraction issues: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9u9S_-PcwQ . His techniques are simple and they've worked for me.

July 14th, 2020, 8:07 pm

Thanks everyone. Here is my next attempt... still not there

For all these attempts I used distribution tool and tamping. Did not experiment with WDT but sounds like this is the next step

Got choked up the first try and didn't break through...

Photo of puck shows just a hole in center.

Loosened up grind and then got spraying everywhere... For these videos, do you think the grind was too coarse in this case?

Photo of puck shows grinds moving around.