Extraction too high

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
Katran

#1: Post by Katran »

I've been working on the prep, and over time my extraction percentage has been going up. E37z hero grinder, frozen beans, aeropress filter on the bottom of the basket, careful grinding into the basket starting at the edges, WDT, tap, arranging the coffee with finger, OCD polish, temping with leveler and fixed weight, spay the puck, metal filter on top, reduced flow for the LMLM, lowered max pressure to 8 bars, VST baskets, etc etc. I had to increase the dose to make it more challenging, but even with a 23g dose in a 25g basket, getting over 24% extraction happens often. Is this the right path? Does increasing the extraction give you a better cup? Is it possible that the extraction can be too high? I'd probably be able to extract more if I get a decent machine, right?

The reason why I'm asking this is that I'm still not entirely happy with my extractions. I just pulled a northern style ristretto, and I got a 22% extraction on a 1-to-1 ratio. It definitely tasted very very flavorful, which is good. The ristretto I would get from a good coffee shop would be less flavorful, but it'll also be sweeter. Maybe too high of an extraction is too much? I also find this with espressos as well

jmotzi

#2: Post by jmotzi »

Katran wrote:...The ristretto I would get from a good coffee shop would be less flavorful, but it'll also be sweeter. Maybe too high of an extraction is too much? I also find this with espressos as well
Same beans? If not, then you cannot expect the same flavor profile.

There has been a lot of work by Scott Rao and others who have concluded that uneven extraction is the bad actor, but increased extraction is good for flavor (unless you enter the realm of extremely high extractions like 30% which starts to pull out unflavorful elements). They have concluded that what most people call over extraction from a bad flavor standpoint is actually uneven extraction. You will likely get many opinions however :)

You might have some fun running some longer shots (even more extraction! but lower concentration) to see how the flavor profile changes with respect to your expectations/desires. Different coffees/roasts taste better at different shot volume. Some like higher, others lower. Personally I find it fun to experiment.

Enjoy!
JM
LMWDP #662

Pressino

#3: Post by Pressino »

Maybe try without the paper filter which you're putting at the bottom of the basket?

DamianWarS

#4: Post by DamianWarS »

Katran wrote:I've been working on the prep, and over time my extraction percentage has been going up. E37z hero grinder, frozen beans, aeropress filter on the bottom of the basket, careful grinding into the basket starting at the edges, WDT, tap, arranging the coffee with finger, OCD polish, temping with leveler and fixed weight, spay the puck, metal filter on top, reduced flow for the LMLM, lowered max pressure to 8 bars, VST baskets, etc etc. I had to increase the dose to make it more challenging, but even with a 23g dose in a 25g basket, getting over 24% extraction happens often. Is this the right path? Does increasing the extraction give you a better cup? Is it possible that the extraction can be too high? I'd probably be able to extract more if I get a decent machine, right?

The reason why I'm asking this is that I'm still not en[-=tirely happy with my extractions. I just pulled a northern style ristretto, and I got a 22% extraction on a 1-to-1 ratio. It definitely tasted very very flavorful, which is good. The ristretto I would get from a good coffee shop would be less flavorful, but it'll also be sweeter. Maybe too high of an extraction is too much? I also find this with espressos as well
with the steps you're taking it will allow you to grind finer which will result in higher extractions. all coffee is different and each coffee with the same steps will have different extraction ceilings or the max you can go before negative tastes come in like astringency and unpleasant bitterness. if you don't like it and sense it's overextracted then try steps to reduce that extraction like stop the shot earlier, dosing down, grinding coarser, using a lower temp of water, etc... If you're not sure if it's overextracted run the shot longer and see how it effects the shot or stop the shot really early and taste what an underextracted shot is like (but it sounds like you already have with the 1:1 shot). with all the prep you're taking it would be better suited with for a ligher roast to try and get the most out that lighter roast but if it's a darker roast higher extraction is going to be bring out more roasted characteristics and would probably be the wrong coffee for all that prep. if it's the wrong coffee for the extraction then it's the wrong coffee and there's no point trying to get something out of the coffee that's not there. you might want to consider reducing some of the steps that contribute to higher extractions like lower water temp, less of a preinfusion (if you're doing that) cutting out things like spraying the puck or don't add a paper filter. do one thing at a time and adjust accordingly but the more you remove it will have an effect of slowing the shot down more and eventually may need you to grinder coarser. it also may be a good time to change coffee as you can get into tasting fatigue of some level and no longer recognize what's enjoyable so it's good to switch it up to something that a lot different like if you're using a washed coffee then switch to a natural or if you have a dark roast switch to a light.

Awainer1

#5: Post by Awainer1 »

isnt higher extraction always better?