gwolf wrote:I am new to the brewing, but not a love of espresso. The beans I am using are very fresh, but i have no previous familiarity with them...

Thanks for the reply/info. Sounds like you know you like espresso, and you probably know what you like in espresso...just maybe not how to get what you like into the cup. There's lots of important info above, particularly as it applies to consistency and control (i.e. figuring out a way to get proper temps out of your grouphead when pulling). Outside of those details, the general parameter Alan listed is a great rule of thumb:

Almico wrote:Depending on your basket size, 15g dose, 30g total output in 30 seconds as a starting point. 2 seconds matters, 3 seconds matters a lot.

I find on the Vario that one notch on the micro (not macro) lever adds/subtracts somewhere from 1.5-3 seconds to pull time. Maybe put your macro lever on 1 and pull some shots going up and down on your micro lever to achieve the outputs Alan refers to.

gwolf wrote:When I use a coarser grind and/or lighter tamp pressure, I get 2 ounces in something like 10 seconds of flow. Guess I just need to keep dialing...

Grinding coarser is a good step for getting away from 'over extraction' but like you're finding above, eventually you can't really get any coarser. Assuming that you're not liking the flavor (i.e. finding it way too bitter) when you are extracting in the ballpark of that 30 sec pull, to me that definitely sounds like the beans.

BaristaBoy E61 wrote:Might be you haven't yet found beans you like...

Again, certainly important to examine technique consistency and control of equipment...but if you're in the ballpark and it's way off from what you like in espresso...my money is that it's that you just don't like the roast. You said above you haven't had any prior experiences with this coffee, which is understandable since you're just beginning espresso at home...but, before going too far (i.e. returning/exchanging equipment for 'better' stuff), I'd just buy 4-5 bags of different coffees (from different roasters...I'm sure people would have a helpful variety of recommendations depending what other roasters you know you already like), pull those coffees in the ballpark of those recommended outputs, and just see if it's the coffee (vs. the technique or equipment). Good luck! It's so much fun once you start pulling shots you enjoy

spromance wrote:I find on the Vario that one notch on the micro (not macro) lever adds/subtracts somewhere from 1.5-3 seconds to pull time. Maybe put your macro lever on 1 and pull some shots going up and down on your micro lever to achieve the outputs Alan refers to.

And, if for some reason you can't dial the Vario in to exactly those parameters, in other words: if one micro-click gives you 31 seconds and the next lower gives you 29, use the 31 second setting and add coffee in 1/4g increments until you get to 30 seconds.

You might ask: "what is so important about this 30 second thing?". The answer is nothing, but you need to practice controlling your espresso extractions.

Or, you can just wing it like most hobbyist, and even professional, baristas and get a lucky god shot every once in a while. I get god shots 95% of the time I pull an espresso at the bar. At home, since I use my Londinium once a week these days, and it takes 2 shots max to dial in with whatever random coffee I happen to have available.

But all this takes proper practice.

My first espressos were on a manual lever La Pavoni with coffee that I roasted myself. At the time, I didn't really know how to do either. In hind site, there were way too many moving parts and I drank lots of bad espresso with lots of maple syrup and milk foam for a year. I finally stumbled upon the right temp and pressure one morning and made, to this day, the best espresso I have ever had. I then proceeded to make 3 awful ones right after.

But the good ones got more frequent until I sold that machine and bought an E61 pump machine. That at least helped keep pressure consistent. Erics thermometer helped with the temperature.

The rest, as they say, is history.

From my own experience as a wide-eyed new equipment owner..

Some equipment needs time to season. Coffee oils need to coat your grinder and machine a little bit. Coffee also needs time to rest. If it is super fresh coffee it will taste quite different than is supposed to. One trick is to grind 10-30 min in advance.

Also if you have been drinking too much coffee, your body may need a break and it's way of telling you is making everything taste nasty. I had this problem when I was working in coffee and drinking quite a lot in one week. I would need a weekend to reset and would try the same things again on Monday and be totally surprised.

Hi Greg,
Spromance is spot on about the beans. Is there an espresso that you have had at a shop that you enjoyed? Start with those beans and try to replicate the taste on your equipment. Your equipment is very nice and I'm sure your technique is fine and it will get better. I have local roasters near me that I don't enjoy so I order by mail. There is a good list roasters on this site. Good luck.

Lots of good suggestions before me. Everything matters -- beans, dose, yield, grind, temperature, distribution and tamp. But I think that the biggest issue is to learn how to operate the Vario for espresso. I have one, and I abandoned it a few months ago because it was too frustrating for me. But since I have one, and I have good fresh espresso beans (Josuma Malabar Gold) from which I pulled four excellent shots this morning, I decided to revisit the Vario to see if I could dial in a proper shot. It took me about 8 shots, the first six were all gushers. The final good setting surprised me because it was finer than the zero point, meaning that the burrs were touching and in fact I think that was part of the break-in procedure (for espresso) which was needed to wear-down the outer edge of the ceramic burrs to achieve a sufficiently fine setting. This sounds wrong, but it was either that or gusher shots.

(Edit:) Just to be clear on the Vario settings: I calibrated at 2Q setting -- this is when I can hear the burrs slow down. See this video. The final setting that achieved the proper grind was 1G for me, which is way past touching.

Anyway, my parameters for a very even extraction, and excellent tasting shot using JMG and Vario:

204 degree F
18.5g dose (very carefully weighed with Acaia Lunar waterproof espresso scale
30.0g yield
35 seconds (no preinfusion)
9 bar
lots WDT time with funnel and paperclip to break up clumps
VST 18g precision ridge-less basket
Pullman Big Step tamp

Have you ever had the coffee beans you bought, prepared as an espresso? (Like at their cafe). Did you like the espresso?

Bitter flavors are usually associated with over extraction, but a sometimes, it is just the beans. If they're roasted to oily bits of black resembling charcoal, that's all you'll taste - burnt charcoal and nothing will fix it. Contrary to popular myth and large-retail-coffee-chain marketing, espresso is NOT supposed to be roasted incredibly dark.

As an internet diagnosis - I like to point you to getting a can of Illy coffee beans, the ones with the Red Label, "Whole Bean Medium Roast". It is widely available at grocery stores and even cooking supply places like Sur La Table. Look at the date on the bottom of the can, Illy gives it up to a 2-year shelf life. Try to find one with a year or more to go.

Illy medium roast is a good espresso. Not the best, but it is good. It is readily available. It is predictable and consistent in quality. Just try to lay your hands on a fresh can.

Open the can and dump the whole thing in your grinder. Start experimenting. I recommend getting a scale that reads in grams and a small kitchen timer. Nothing too fancy necessary. Weigh out 18g of ground coffee and put it in the basket and tamp it. Purge your Anita (see the HX water dance thread) until the water stops spitting. Put the portafilter on. Weigh your cup and tare the scale. Pull a 28 second shot from the first drips. Weigh the beverage. Adjust your grind setting so you get 28-32g of beverage in about 25-35 seconds of time.

You should get a decent espresso, with a bit of crema, with mild flavors leaning a bit to the roasted side. In milk in a cappuccino, it should be nice and caramel with a bit of roast and smokiness, with little hints of fruit and acidity.

Yes, there are better espresso beans and yes, the Illy is in a nitrogen can and will go stale in a few days after opening it. But it is a really good reference for getting acquainted with your machine. Millions of people LIKE Illy, especially when it is correctly prepared. I find it quite acceptable, though I like other coffee better. But it should get you rolling and understanding your machine.

lots of great advice. But the biggest was to just wade in and enjoy the water. You'll pick it up eventually. make small changes, usually its easier to go too fine and try to choke or semi choke the machine, then back away from that and coarsen up... approaching it from the too coarse side seems harder.
for time, I tend to go way longer than 30 seconds, its a suggestion not a rule.... in fact, I prefer when it first starts its just a drip...... drip..... drip... big, gooey, gummy drops that go ker-splatt!!! when they hit the cup. you can actually see the letters in the air, like on the old batman movies. they don't coat the bottom of the cup, those initial splats glob there almost like jello and have a noticeable bulge to them, the surface tension is so high you could cut em with a knife. Then the stream gathers speed and coalesces and you have a beautiful caramel finger. Generally mine run close to 45 seconds or more... let your machine warm up at least 1/2 hour first and don't forget to do the water dance thingy.
oh, and for WDT, I just use a paper clip that I bent straight you don't have to spend a lot.

Have you ordered a .1 gram scale yet? I even use the $20 AWS one from Amazon. Everything above is right on and I think it all boils down to being consistent and you can't be unless you're weighing dose and yield.

So much fun to learn!

Thanks again for all of the replies. Can someone comment on this follow up question...

I have been using 16 grams of beans, and given what you are saying about brew ratios, this should produce 32 g of liquid. I am also reading that, if the result is too bitter, that the ratio can be cut to produce a smaller shot. I just tried moving to 20 grams of beans, to try to fill my portafilter (the 16 gram grinds don't really come close to filling the filter). This 20g bean shot would then produce a 40 ml shot. Is this correct? If all of this is correct, why is the "typical" espresso shot made using 16 grams of beans? Wouldn't the grams of beans be determined by the size of the shot you want to pull?
Thanks!

I use a 20g dose as my standard starting point. Depending on the coffee, I pull anywhere from 25-36g based on how it tastes to me, not ratios. I also don't worry so much about pull time: I'm finding that a finer grind and a longer, slower, drippier (at the start) time to get to my 25-36g tastes way better.

I think the 30 seconds 'standard' is useful in a busy cafe with long lines. Someone posted a link somewhere here (not even sure how to search for it) with an article/blog post by a cafe manager who experimented with longer, slower pulls and was blown away by the taste. If I remember correctly, he started pulling (finer grind) shots for 40-45 seconds. He actually liked shots that pulled much longer, but the extra ten seconds was pushing what his business could tolerate. Customers wouldn't tolerate, for instance, a doubling of their wait.

I think it is fine to lock down variables, and a target of 30 seconds is reasonable. But if you don't get espresso that tastes wonderful under the constraints you have locked in, start varying them. Getting consistent results at 30 seconds is a good target so that you are confident of your steps and process. I apologize for not having read the entire thread -- if you don't already have these, put them on your list: bottomless portafilter, 0.1g sensitive scale, self-leveling tamper, and a distribution tool. As these get into your workflow, you will find improvements in consistency, taste, and ability to try small changes. [I've settled on the inexpensive AWS (?) scale on amazon, KafaTek LevTamp, and the Londinium distribution tool for my purposes, others have success with other products]

So, in either case, 16/32 or 20/40, you won't be cutting the ratio. If you try 20/32 then you have made a ratio change while keeping your 32 output.

Try this salami shot experiment if you haven't already, and pull longer than you normally would. (My variation is that I swipe a swipe and taste with a spoon, but the cup way is no doubt better, and lets come back to them). A 20g dose would be good for this experiment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aD33p4_fJo