Now that we have the option to buy pressure profiling for standard E61 units, I am wondering if it would be worth eliminating the thermometer for the pressure gauge... Maybe the best option for HX machines would be the E61 thermometer (vidastech or ericks) and pressure profiling with no pressure gauge? It would be amazing if somehow we could incorporate both pressure gauge and thermometer on the same grouphead but I guess that would not look that great.


what do you all think?

I've often thought about a single dual purpose E61 brew head gauge, pressure and temperature.
I'm sure some enterprising individual will sooner or later get around to developing one.

A dual gauge would be lovely.

IMO: For an E61 DB there's no contest, the pressure gauge is more useful since once the DB is accurately calibrated, the initial group temperature is fairly consistent with the display.

If you flush the HX E61 to get to a target temperature, the thermometer is more use; you'll have to use the needle valve for flow profiling, rather than pressure.

The big loss is you have no info during the preinfusion stage, when there is no flow. You'll have to use a timer, and operate the valve blind to get the longer low pressure preeinfusions that have become standard in profiled shots. If there's a clever way of handling the preinfusion without seeing the pressure; then the need for a group pressure gauge would be much reduced.

I have been using Erics' thermometer for many years now, and find it indispensable. I am also very interested in a retrofit to my E-61 HX to add pressure profiling. My espresso is so satisfying with my present setup that I am very unlikely to buy a new machine just to add that, admittedly intriguing, feature. Whenever someone clever comes up with a method to have both a pressure gauge AND a thermometer, I will spend the money to add to my pleasures in pursuit of ever better espresso.

With so many high quality HX machines out there in use, there must be many people like me, and thus a sufficiently large enough market for someone to develop a solution.

I used the Pro500PID HX for about 6 months without a thermometer and now, 6 months with one. I can't imagine anyone using any HX machine without a group thermometer. I really don't think we should have to add one one as I am not convinced an HX machine is truly usable without knowing water temp at the end of thermosiphon at the group head. And the HX design inherently forces the brew water to vary significantly with flushing techniques, time interval between shots, whether you are steaming milk as well, etc.

Even on an E61 DB (which I haven't used) , I'd think the thermometer is pretty useful to tell when the head is up-to-temp and ready to pull a shot. 'Cause if you start pulling a shot as soon as the PID says the brew water is up to temp, I'd think the actual brew water in the basket would be all over the place. But others would have to comment. I have no experience with that.

I was playing with the idea of getting the profiling option for the HX.. but, for me, I think an HX might not be the right machine if I'm attempting this level of control. At least not without better sensors built into the design.

I second the idea that a thermometer on an HX machine is nearly essential. Of course, the easiest way to do it is using an EricS thermometer (or similar). However, there's arguably a better way, albeit way more invasive, that would permit putting a manometer in the hole normally used by the EricS thermometer. As I recall, over on CG, a chap drilled a hole for a thermocouple in the bell of his E61, lower down on the group, on the 'flying saucer'. The hole came out on the flat surface beside where the brew water comes out into the PF. I don't remember the details, but I think he said that it reads much closer to the actual brew temperature than with an EricS thermometer, and that it's much more responsive. Also, I've always assumed a 3 degree difference between my EricS thermometer and actual brew temp (i.e., to get 90 I read 93); but the CG discussion noted that this relationship is neither accurate nor stable. All that said, I rely on my EricS thermometer and I can't imagine taking my machine apart to do this modification; but for those with a machine shop and the skill, this might be the best way to have both temperature and pressure.