E61 Thermometer Adapter Techniques for Dummies - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
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sweaner
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#11: Post by sweaner »

Thanks guys. I have been thinking about lowering the pstat setting. When I tried Randy's method of flushing to 203, building, flushing to 203, and pulling I got very good results. I noticed that the temp dropped as I pulled the shot down to 193-194. Does this mean anything?
Scott
LMWDP #248

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erics
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#12: Post by erics »

Well, if you do lower your pstat, give the machine about 30-45 minutes to settle down at the new temperature regime.

I just ran a Scace Thermofilter test on Anita and pulled a simulated shot after flushing to 206 on the digital thermometer. The temperatures were pretty flat around 199.0 to 199.5 as read from the thermocouple in the thermofilter.

About 2.5 minutes after the conclusion of the shot, I pulled another simulated shot when the digital thermometer hit 198.0 on the way up. This time the shot was 200.0 - 200.5 . If I had simulated a screen flush (which I forgot to do) it probably would have been 3 minutes. This time is dependent on your pstat setting - i.e. 1.25 will be faster than 1.20 which will be faster than 1.15.
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

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edwa

#13: Post by edwa »

Hi Eric,

I'm often game to trying something new, so if I followed your directions on your users.rcn link correctly, I flush 7-9 oz.s and then reinsert the built basket and then lock and pull the shot when the grouphead temp is at 195 ?

On my machine, for this trial I let the shot go for 30 seconds and at that time I was finally dropping down to 209.3. After an 8 oz flush the grouphead would only DROP down to 197 unlike your graph where it went lower and then came up to 195. Did I do something wrong? It is set at about 1.15 to 1.2 bar. I should mention that since my machine came back from replacing the 2 relays the idle grouphead temp reads 200.5 and it use to read 214 BUT it still reads the same temps when pulling shots. I mean my routine remains unchanged and the results on the temp read out remain as before.

Ed

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erics
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#14: Post by erics »

Ed -

If I remember correctly, you are measuring GH temps with a Fuji PXR3 and a 1/16" Type T thermocouple - is this still correct? If yes, then:
. . . since my machine came back from replacing the 2 relays the idle grouphead temp reads 200.5 and it use to read 214 . . .
This is something that needs more investigation before we can go any further as it is too dramatic of a change without discovering the cause. First thing I would do (machine cold) is to measure the water level with a small wooden dowel (say 1/8") through the opening for the vacuum breaker valve. I believe you will find a substantially increased water level. :(
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

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cannonfodder
Team HB

#15: Post by cannonfodder »

When using Eric's adapter, there is about 5 degrees difference (+) between the Scace grouphead temperature and the adapters temperature with the last few seconds of the shot being spot on. Use the thermocouple as a guide, not an absolute. Pay attention to your flush temperature, you time between the flush and the start of the shot and the temperature at the end of the shot. If your shot is bitter/hot when you use one combination, then try flushing to a slightly lower temperature, retaining the rebound time and pull another shot, again paying attention to the ending temperature. If it is still hot, and your end temperature was lower than before, flush to a slightly lower temperature and repeat. If your ending temperature is the same even with the lower flush temperature, then your machine has a fast rebound. If that is the case then you need to lower your recovery time and observe the results again and modify until you hit your sweet spot.
Dave Stephens

drminpa

#16: Post by drminpa »

I went through the same struggle a year ago when I got my Vetrano and installed the thermometer adapter - now I don't give it second thought. Some points I've found to be key from the above posts:
- first thing in the morning the machine goes on about 30-40 minutes before use.
- pour milk in pitcher, dose beans into grinder, and get ready generally.
- draw water through brewhead until thermometer displays the chosen temperature. This is my pre-cool.
- grind, dose, tamp
- draw water again to once again cool to predetermined temperature.
- lock and pull.
- subsequent shots done in succession need no further cooling.
Its all about having a routine - I use exactly the same method but without the second flush.
Best advice is to flush to a given temperature for all your pulls for a few days, see how that tastes to you, then try a degree or two different temperature and see if that changes things. Don't worry about the "True" extraction temperature. Use the thermometer as the starting line, the brew-button to start the race, and your palate is the best way to judge who wins.
Exactly!! This is where your routine meets your espresso preference - you have to learn what temperature to start at by trial and taste. Each coffee bean and sometimes even batch is different and requires a different starting point (measured by your thermometer adapter). I use Black Cat and flush to 195 and then prepare the shot - in the 25-30 seconds it takes to do this (I know the timing because I timed and modified my preparation routine until I was consistent at 25-30 seconds) my machine rebounds to 198 which is my starting point. This makes an espresso just right for my taste.

Don't get too caught up in all the temperature curve stuff. You can get eactly the same results if you use a stop watch and time your flushes and rebounds instead of following the temperature. The thermometer adapter just makes it easier to hit the same points repeatably (its a PITA to follow a stop watch while going through your routine).

Best of luck.

Dave

PS - my Vetrano idles at about 210 - I have mine hard plumbed so incoming water is cooler and it still rebounds pretty quick. 215 seems awful high - I think you could get away with lowering your p-stat a little to cut down on flush water consumption.

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sweaner
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#17: Post by sweaner »

David, thanks. One of these days I will lower the pstat, as I am using quite a bit of water.
Scott
LMWDP #248

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Brownie

#18: Post by Brownie »

Hi all,

I have made a (positive :) ) review of Eric's adapter here...(It is in Danish).

A question I have is, if anyone can tell me how fast the readings are. Is there any delay of the reading?

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TimEggers

#19: Post by TimEggers »

My Anita idles at 218+F (very hot) and I like a flush-and-go method. I'll prepare my basket then flush until the readout says 200F (for my current blend) then immediately lock and pull. The super hot group will keep the reading tight and the espresso great (for my tastes). I can flush to any temp around 200F to reliably affect the brew temperature (without all the waiting). :roll:

I've experimented all across the P-STAT range and found that the flush-and-go on the Anita works best at a high P-STAT setting. The added bonus is fast group recovery (I detest waiting on the HX circuit) and strong steam power (but I never make milk drinks anymore) :roll: .

Frankly I couldn't careless about water usage either, the tank is easy to refill and I like having fresh water in there anyways. Fill once a day and life is good.
Tim Eggers
http://www.facebook.com/TimEggers
LMWDP #202

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sweaner
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#20: Post by sweaner »

Tim, what is your Pstat setting? I am now at 1.1 and am using a similar technique, flushing to 203.
Scott
LMWDP #248