Dosing: 14g, 18g, 19g, 20g, 21g, 22g? What do you use, and why (taste) - Page 4

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
kris772 (original poster)
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#31: Post by kris772 (original poster) »

edit

Educate me please - what is the vst basket and just what is "precision" about it and is it really an "industry standard" or simply a different (expensive) basket? I know what the advertising hype says and what vendors who want you to buy them say. - but, REALLY??? They haven't been around all that long.(9yrs? - and now everybody's "gotta have 'em?) It is extremely rare that I notice particles of coffee stuck in a basket after a pull, never noticed fines in my cup from my (apparently, since they are not vst branded) junk baskets and my other-than-Niche-Zero grinder. i can naked any of them with little or no channeling.

Grind and distribution. (and I generally only thunk a few times and then poke a tamper (a la Ian!) at it and go.)(I have a WDT tool but it generally sits unused. Not needed.)(I mostly pull ristrettos - really putting a strain on that puck.)

And now IMS.

Or possibly needed with the Niche-Zero conical burr grinder due to lack of consistancy?
Life is too short for bad espresso! - Thunk-ed, NOT stirred!

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Jeff
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#32: Post by Jeff »

Precision -- the hole size and uniformity are generally a lot better than stamped baskets

"Better" -- For cafes with multi-group machines, each basket behaves about the same as another of the same size. Dial in once, don't worry about the groups being different or accidentally swapping portafilters.

"Better" -- For advanced home users whose grinder and puck-prep is up to handling them and have a reason to do so for the coffee in hand, VST baskets are in the category of baskets where the flavor is felt to be more enjoyable and the extraction yield measurably higher for those coffees and gear.

"Worse" -- For most home users with one or more of mid-range grinders, only moderate puck prep skills, or machines with less-than-ideal water dispersion, they tend to be tweaky and prone to channeling, negating any of the benefits of the above.

Like tires for cars, you can argue that racing slicks are the best tire out there, but I wouldn't want them on on my daily driver, especially during the rainy season.

Is VST a "standard"? I think it depends on your machine and the circles you run in. Some machines ship with stamped baskets still, some with IMS or other "precision" baskets. Most of the DE1 owners that are exploring the boundaries of light-roast espresso with modern burrs and writing about it use VST baskets. That doesn't make it a "standard" as that group of people is a tiny fraction of the world of home-espresso makers. Probably most of that global world still regularly enjoy espresso from coffee somewhere near second crack.

You'll no doubt find some whose opinions are different.

Edit: IMS has a wide range of options for baskets, including difference in taper and hole pattern. How the basket behaves will depend on the shape of the basket, hole pattern, and hole count. Some are fast-flowing baskets (similar to VST), some are not.

From IMS Catalogue, downloadable from https://www.imsfiltri.com/


kris772 (original poster)
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#33: Post by kris772 (original poster) »

many thanks Jeff.
Life is too short for bad espresso! - Thunk-ed, NOT stirred!

nicholas0000

#34: Post by nicholas0000 »

kris772 wrote:Educate me please - what is the vst basket and just what is "precision" about it and is it really an "industry standard" or simply a different (expensive) basket? I know what the advertising hype says and what vendors who want you to buy them say. - but, REALLY??? They haven't been around all that long.(9yrs? - and now everybody's "gotta have 'em?) It is extremely rare that I notice particles of coffee stuck in a basket after a pull, never noticed fines in my cup from my (apparently, since they are not vst branded) junk baskets and my other-than-Niche-Zero grinder. i can naked any of them with little or no channeling.

Grind and distribution. (and I generally only thunk a few times and then poke a tamper (a la Ian!) at it and go.)(I have a WDT tool but it generally sits unused. Not needed.)(I mostly pull ristrettos - really putting a strain on that puck.)

And now IMS.

Or simply elitist?

Or possibly needed with the Niche-Zero conical burr grinder due to lack of consistancy?
Like Jeff suggested, VST baskets should give a more consistent result, like they are 'calibrated' and tested at the factory, so we can have identical bakset among different users, there is a little report comes with the basket telling the number of holes and sizes.
From my experience, VST require a finer grind and seems to be faster, and easier to get channeling, say it is a hard mode compare to the one comes with the mahcine.
Even decent espresso have their own basket come with the machine, and they do sell them in different sizses, I can see still a lots of DE user using VST instead of the decent branded ones. This could be the most common basket that many people may have, from different machines.

I do not have too many basket, but I think I need more after your question is being answared and honestly I am having problem on choosing the dose for a coffee, I am now dosing 19g in a 18g basket, becasuse that's what most of the people do.

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cafeIKE
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#35: Post by cafeIKE »

iploya wrote:Care to share a baseline recipe for your 21.5g dose (grams out and temperature)?
Here you go, but IMO using other people's settings is a recipe for disaster unless you have identical hardware, live in close to the same climate, buy similar coffees and like similar brews...

I used to have two Vibiemme HX w different PID makes. Set identically, they did not brew the same shot as there is enough variation in pump pressure, gicleur, OPV, temperature, etc. to make it nearly pointless... and the DB is an entirely different ball of wax. All made great coffee, just not the same coffee.

============
Level Ground - Saanichton, BC, Canada
============
Honduran / Ethiopia - no fancy names
60 /40
Triple Basket
21.7g
esprEsso - where I set the Niche, but it's unlikely another Niche would be identical unless it was from the original batch, ground about a pound of espresso only a week at similar settings
- probably about 30-35g in about 40s from first drop. I frequently adjust time & volume after dial in as the coffee ages.

==============
Wandering Goat - Eugene, OR, USA
==============
Cafe Feminina Peru / Sidamo Homacho Waeno 60/40 - not a dark roast but astounding
DB 108°C - boiler setting
22g triple no name basket, Niche 13, 205°F, 7.5 bar - on Vibiemme PID HX

=======================
Columbia River Roasters
=======================
Highwater [DARK]
20.5g, Espresso <- dot on E
Triple Basket [probably no name]
DB 106°C - boiler set point
30g 40s from first drop
Highwater

kris772 (original poster)
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#36: Post by kris772 (original poster) »

And thanks for that Ian. Gonna play with the triple basket tomorrow. been a while.
Life is too short for bad espresso! - Thunk-ed, NOT stirred!

rapha
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#37: Post by rapha »

I'm using IMS E&B superfine basket (the ones with the mesh) for light roast. I'm usually using the 18g basket but I get better tasting shots when using the 20g basket which allows me to grind slighlty coarser but I prefer to use less coffee (less waste of expensive coffees, especially when I'm dialing in).

kris772 (original poster)
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#38: Post by kris772 (original poster) »

I have just gone back and edited a bunch of my posts (for future readers of this) because I was confusing "ridgeless" (the ridge that the pf holder spring locks in to), with the width of the bottom of a common pf. Sorry. All of my baskets a/o this moment (7-2-22) are common and WITH ridges.

Maybe play more later, but this AM rather than play with the tripple basket, I took the larger of those 2 smaller doubles and put 18g (had been using 17.4g) with a click looser grind and got a fabulous tasting GH Monte Cristos brew(again, no special distribution - thunk a few times, level with finger, sorta tamp, and go.) Makes me realize that even with "just common" baskets I have a lot of lattitude for dosing, and thus, tastes.

Thanks, Jeff, and appologies for mis-understanding you and topic. Next week I'll be perfect! Promise! ;)
Life is too short for bad espresso! - Thunk-ed, NOT stirred!