Doser vs Doserless and Weiss Distribution Technique (WDT) - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
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AndyS
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#11: Post by AndyS »

cgfan wrote:FYI, here's an updated video showing the full workflow of the doserless Super Jolly mod and the use of the canning funnel
I'm with Marshall on this one: your routine could probably be streamlined while still remaining just as effective. But meanwhile, two questions:

1. Your worktable appears to be tilted at an 80 degree angle from horizontal. How do you keep everything from sliding off?
2. How do you manage to pull shots while simultaneously playing that great Flamenco music?
-AndyS
VST refractometer/filter basket beta tester, no financial interest in the company

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Marshall
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#12: Post by Marshall »

And I forgot to give kudos for not weighing each shot, which is the final symptom of the crippling (and potentially life-threatening) condition known as "everything I know about making espresso I learned on the Internet."
Marshall
Los Angeles

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cgfan
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#13: Post by cgfan »

OCD? Aren't we all, at least those of us who have spent countless dollars, hours and years perfecting the drink and participating in forums such as H-B.com? Though I can't imagine ever reaching anywhere near 700 posts! :D

Re. the video and my approach, I wouldn't recommend it to most. But I would of thought that there might be a more receptive audience here, particularly given the nature of this audience (or was I mistaken?), this website (after all it is called home-barista and not commercial-barista...), and the particular nature of our chosen beverage with its endless technical complexities, perceptual nuances, not to mention its place in the history and lore of man.

Which part would you suggest I remove?

The brushing of the grinder? Not doing that would admit a sizeable percentage of old grounds to be retained for the next shot. Yuk!

The brushing and rinsing of the showerhead and portafilter? I can't even imagine purposely leaving behind traces of old and spent grounds to bake in the machine until it gets added in with the next shot. Yuk!

Perhaps this is being misunderstood as something to be used in the commercial environment. That's certanly not the intent. However I'd respect any shop that would have the dedication and commitment to find whatever time they can to clean these critical areas.

As a side note who has not heard many an espresso enthusiast say that the best drinks they can find are at home, in spite of some very good cafes becoming more and more available. Sure that's a hollow claim if said against the likes of *$'s and other mass-merchants of the drink, but I'm sure some of these claims can stand up to the test against some of the very best of cafes as well. Amongst the latter my pet theory is that the home enthusiast can indulge in rituals that the commercial shops simply cannot afford, and hence employ a more perfect union between espresso's known "best principles" to one's actual routine.

I'm certainly open to streamlining it if it can remove unnecessary steps, but I guess that's open to interpretation what is necessary and what is not. For me it's all about the taste and the resulting quality of the drink.

I'd welcome any and all suggestions...

(Arguably wiping down the surfaces with a towel does not contribute to the quality of the drink, but that's only done to protect the rubbed-in finish of the custom-built worksurface. Unfortunately the protective glass top doesn't quite cover the entire surface...)

(BTW the incredible flamenco playing in the background, believe it or not, was that of a friend of mine who recorded it when he was still in high school!)

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Psyd
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#14: Post by Psyd »

Marshall wrote:And I forgot to give kudos for not weighing each shot, which is the final symptom of the crippling (and potentially life-threatening) condition known as "everything I know about making espresso I learned on the Internet."
That's dangerously close to the 'If you don't do things like I do, you're doing it all wrong' disease that you get when you stay too long in the ivory tower.
I learned a lot from the internet. I learned a lot of it right here. And I make a damned good espresso, too. I hear a lot of things here and at other coffee sites, and I have time to try quite a few of them. John sent me a coupla frog skewers, and I use them. Mostly with the Rockys, but there are a few coffees that need it with the Mazzers as well. And, I use a funnel, too! I use it 'cause it's easy, and it saves a lot of cleanup.
Look you, do what works for you, but don't start telling folk that the perfectly good tools and techniques that they use are wrong, especially if the reason that they're wrong is that they were cadged from the very forum that you're suggesting isn't a good place to get advice on making espresso.
I weigh my beans before I grind, and grind per dose. It's a lot easier to allow the tools to do the work so that I can pay attention to visitors instead of focusing on what I think 18g looks like. (BTW, I can pretty much dose to within .2g of 18 without the scale if I'm on my own).

Do what you want. Do what works. Do NOT listen to folk on the innerwebnets that suggest that you're not a real Jedi if you don't use the Force...
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shadowfax
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#15: Post by shadowfax »

My two suggestions for 'points of streamlining' would be direct-dosing into the portafilter, and tamping only once. I understand that direct-dosing isn't feasible on your funnel-thing, though, right? Another possibility is putting on a hopper and a day's worth of coffee in it, and using timing and visual evaluation to dose your coffee (then a leveling chop/whatever you fancy to get a consistent dose). It's worth a try, if you haven't. as a longtime single-doser, I resisted even trying it for a long time, but was impressed with the increased consistency I got with it when I finally gave in. This is a 'some-waste' method, but then, your 'no-waste' method involves leveling over the knockbox as well, right?

Anyway, as one OCD barista to another, while I side with Chris philosophically (do what you enjoy), I think Andy and Marshall have a point--I can appreciate where Marshall comes from. Watching a master barista pull perfect shots without any visible effort is a thing to behold; it's downright mesmerizing. I would seriously question how common it is to see a home-barista that thinks their coffee is better than the best shops. There are levels of shops even among third wave shops, and I think it takes a great deal of pretense to sneer at the likes of a champion barista on equipment that he/she makes hundreds of shots a day on. I don't really think it happens--but I'm known to be wrong on 'occasion.'

Finally, FWIW, I wouldn't suggest eliminating the brushing and wiping. I brush out the chute and brush off the doser vanes per-shot, onto the top of the coffee mound, and I wipe the grinds off the screen after each shot, doing a water backflush at the end of each session throughout the day. Dirty groups and dirty grinders gross me out too.
Nicholas Lundgaard

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Psyd
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#16: Post by Psyd »

...while I side with Chris philosophically (do what you enjoy)... ... Watching a master barista pull perfect shots without any visible effort is a thing to behold; it's downright mesmerizing. I would seriously question how common it is to see a home-barista that thinks their coffee is better than the best shops.... ... I think it takes a great deal of pretense to sneer at the likes of a champion barista on equipment that he/she makes hundreds of shots a day on.
Just because I'm very commonly mis-understood (due to an ongoing lack of didacticity and a good editor...), I would humbly suggest that we have issues that master baristi don't face, and that a fair amount of my morning ritual is based on not wanting to clean the floors and counters too often and quite often not building more'n a doppio per session.
My shots are on par with some of the best shops here in town, and I'm pulling better 'spro than at least 90% of the shops here. Trust me, that's like saying I can paint better'n Helen Keller could.
I think that if we were using the kit that champion baristi use, willing to put in the time that champion baristi do, and pulling the sheer number of shots that they do, in their environment, quite a lot of the moves and techniques that we use would be superfluous.
My point is that you should be comfortable doing anything that helps you through your morning coffee.
I think the point that Marshall was making was to make sure that it actually helps. I found myself using techniques on the Majors and the Astoria that I'd learned on Silvia and Rocky. Some of them still work (yoghurt cup to keep the counter clean), and some of them made the coffee worse. Guess which ones I kept? ; >
Use whatever technique makes the coffee better/easier, regardless of where you learned it. But yeah, test it against not using it, and if you can't tell the difference, or the coffee is better/easier without it, dump it.
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atao
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#17: Post by atao »

i've tried dosing by volume with my Silvia. is this even realistic? when i do things just as i see Baca do in the Ritual video, i get so much coffee that it contacts the shower screen. it obviously works fine with his equipment, but with a low headspace machine, i don't know how to get around weighing (other than a darkroom timer or mini-e). i'm certainly open to suggestions.

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ChadTheNomad
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#18: Post by ChadTheNomad »

I don't understand the hate for weighing your beans. After all, I think the vast majority of us are pulling the shots strictly for our own use out of our homes. A barista in a commercial setting has a lot of demands placed on them, and this of course creates pros and cons.

I started weighing my beans when I was traveling on business and had to take my smokeless roaster along with me. It created such a small amount of roasted coffee that even a little waste would leave me roasting several times a week. That got really annoying. Being more accurate to the gram gave me an extra handful of shots a week.

Practical? For home use, sure. It takes me an extra 3 seconds to weigh. If I was pulling dozens of shots a day I'd be content with a more volumetric method.

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