Do Different Doses with Same Ratio Taste the Same?

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
Ken5

#1: Post by Ken5 »

I see that people change dose depending on the coffee. I am trying to understand how this helps.

Does a basket dosed with 18 grams that produces a shot that weighs 36 grams taste the same as a basket at 14 grams that produces a cup at 28 grams? Both are 2:1.

Or is the goal to change 'ratio' by keeping the output the same?

Ken

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another_jim
Team HB

#2: Post by another_jim »

You keep the brew ratio the same. When you lower the dose in the same basket you have to grind finer to keep the flow rate right. This will extract more long chain molecules and mellow the flavor. Upping the dose and coarsening the grind does the opposite.
Jim Schulman

Ken5

#3: Post by Ken5 » replying to another_jim »

Ah... the missing part of the equation. Thanks Jim! I just assumed that since the output was less that the time to pull the shot would be less.

Being a newbie and having so many variables really makes this hard to learn. I imagine that the fact that I am using a robot adds another variable as pressure output is all on me.

Ken

PIXIllate

#4: Post by PIXIllate »

another_jim wrote:You keep the brew ratio the same. When you lower the dose in the same basket you have to grind finer to keep the flow rate right. This will extract more long chain molecules and mellow the flavor. Upping the dose and coarsening the grind does the opposite.

STICKY THIS!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff

#5: Post by Jeff »

Going back to 2011 and How filter baskets affect espresso taste and barista technique

There were some interesting results on different baskets
[...]
To do this, five baskets of various dose sizes were selected, the La Marzocco single, the Faema double, the VST 18 and 22, and the OEM triple. Each basket was used in shots dosed to to produce 0.67 brew ratios in 25 seconds, thereby producing scale invariant shots. If scale invariance holds for taste, these shots should taste identical.

Coffee cuppers and those who compete in cupping competitions know it is easiest to distinguish different coffees after the cups have cooled. But surprisingly, the five scale invariant shots were indistinguishable cold and easily distinguished when hot.

The higher the dose, the punchier tasting the shot. This punch is a combination of astringent, cutting and bitter flavors that wine lovers get from tannic wines, and which they call "structure." The higher the dose, the more structured the shot; the lower the dose, the creamier and softer tasting the shot. Since this effect disappears as the crema dissipates; this structure difference is clearly caused by differences in the crema of high and low dose shots.
[...]

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another_jim
Team HB

#6: Post by another_jim »

Those shots required different grind settings. if I remember correctly. The selection of baskets was a bit weird from the point of view of this experiment (I was doing a series of different experiments). If you buy all the different VST baskets, and use them at their recommended dose, and keep the brew rations the same, you'll still get softer shots from the smaller baskets, because they are designed to be used with finer grinds. But unlike the single dose/grind VST and Strada baskets, regular baskets can be used with a wide range of dose/grind settings, so they are easier for playing with different grind settings.

I'm still puzzled that the shots tasted the same when cold. It could be my taste buds were blown out, and I should have added water to the shots. (tasting espresso is a lot like tasting distilled drinks, after a few shot, the tastes buds blow out. Diluting helps)

If you use a lever or flow control machine, you can change the grind without changing the dose, since longer preinfusions can be used to lower the flow resistance of finely ground pucks. This is becoming the SOP now, especially with very light roasts that require ultra-fine grinds.
Jim Schulman

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EddyQ

#7: Post by EddyQ »

PIXIllate wrote: STICKY THIS!!!!!!!!!!
It already is a sticky!!

Espresso 101: How to Adjust Dose and Grind Setting by Taste
LMWDP #671