Critique shot and help improve flavor

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
Endodude

Postby Endodude » Oct 21, 2017, 2:39 pm

looking for some feedback on my extraction - I'm helping a friend get things setup. Using BDB with sette 270, using a funnel and WDT. Using Malabar gold beans 9 days post roast temp set to 203f. Preinfusion set to 84% for the entire duration of the shot. Shot tastes ok but it is a little on the either aggressive or sour side of things (I'm not sure which one) and would want more sweetness to it if possible. Tastes great when cut with milk. 19g dose with 36g out in 30 seconds.

It does seem as if there is more of a tan color extracting fairly early in the shot rather than it staying darker for longer. The sette is fairly new only about a week old so I wonder if the Burr not being fully seasoned may be a cause?



Below I have reduced the dose to 18g in and 36g out, adjusted the grind a little finer. The aggressive seems to be reduced but taste a little bland. How can I get more sweetness out of the extraction?





Thanks

Marcelnl

Postby Marcelnl » Oct 21, 2017, 5:06 pm

maybe I'm getting you wrong, but preinsuion is something that happens before extraction, not during.

Burr seasoning will come with more variation, maybe first run some discard beans through before trying to change parameters?

Do you time your shots? seems to be running fast (timed from first drop to the end), try grinding a bit finer perhaps aiming for approx 30 sec total?
a good go to number is starting with 14 g in, and whatever ratio you want and work on grind setting first aiming for 30sec flow.
LMWDP #483

HH

Postby HH » Oct 21, 2017, 7:03 pm

Hey John,
I have a BDB and can tell you what I have found gives me the best flavour. Given taste is pretty subjective, it may or may not be what you are looking for but it seems to give me balanced shots with good amounts of sweetness, acidity and bitterness.

In my experience, based on lots of trial and error and also using the razor tool as a guide to optimum dose for the Breville basket, I have found that it works best with 21g. In your bottom video it looks like it is running too fast and channeling round the sides of the puck. It's likely this is just due to their being too little coffee in the basket and should resolve when increasing the dose to 21g.

Usually I prefer a 6second pre-infusion, then ramping up to full pressure. If it tastes bland or sour to you it is likely you are either under dosing or under extracting, or both. See how it tastes when you increase the dose to 21g in, with 42g our in around 30 seconds. You may want to then try getting the same yield in 25, 30 and 35 seconds (by altering your grind) to find which tastes best to you.

Endodude

Postby Endodude » Oct 22, 2017, 9:24 am

Tried adjusting the dose and updosing to 20g and have ground finer. Josuma Malabar Gold beans used and they recommend 20g dose with 35g yield in 27-30 seconds. Here are the results:

http://www.vimeo.com/239323338

I've started timing from the first drop now and it resulted in a 37g yield in 27 seconds. Still a little sour I'd say but also leaving a dry aftertaste. Just looking at the final shot I can see so much of the middle part of the extraction but not enough of the earlier darker part of the extraction which sits at the bottom of the cup - how can I extract more of this part as I'm sure that's where the sweetness is which im lacking. I did do the taste test earlier swiping a bit every 5 seconds and I certainly preferred the earlier-mid portion of the extraction. I'm going to lock in dose now and not change that from 20g. Yield has been reccomended as 35g would like to keep that constant. Where to go from here - I'm assuming I need to grind slightly finer?

Endodude

Postby Endodude » Oct 22, 2017, 11:48 am

Ground finer again. 20g in 36g out in 43 seconds from time of first drop into cup. This was only changing the micro adjustment on the sette from 9E to 9D from the last video. I'll go half way between the two next time as this was a little slow. Sourness has gone and just the very start of subtle bitterness detected.
One thing I've noticed with the Sette is some occasional ring drift of the micro adjustment even though I've tightened the 3 screws under the burrs and it seems to go from coarser to finer with this. I'm caffeined out for the day :)

http://www.vimeo.com/239333708

mrjag

Postby mrjag » Oct 22, 2017, 3:53 pm

The forum mangled my longer post so I'll just retype this part. The recommended extraction profile (https://www.josuma.com/extraction-parameters/) says you should be aiming for a slightly ristretto shot; so somewhere in the 0.6-0.57 range instead of the 0.5 (1:2) that you pulled.

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bluesman

Postby bluesman » replying to mrjag » Oct 23, 2017, 9:19 am

But more important is Josuma's instruction that MG tastes best at a higher brew temp (203 - 205). You use 203, so increasing it to 205 may be the key to success. I get sour shots if my cooling flush is too long - what worked for Redbird, Hairbender etc was too long for MG. The other issue is basket size, about which Josuma says "Due to low bean density, we often use a triple basket (21g) even though we're serving a double shot".

Following all of their instructions results in a wonderful espresso from my machine on my palate. I strongly suggest starting with their exact recipe, in its entirety, before trying to achieve it yourself. MG is a different animal from other beans, and it mandates accommodation to its idiosyncrasies. The puck is always a bit wet and looks lost in the cavern of a triple basket - but it works and I love it!

Best of luck!

Endodude

Postby Endodude » Oct 23, 2017, 10:21 am

So I adjusted the grind to be a touch coarser and increased the brew temp to 204f. 20g dose 35g yield. Sourness pretty much all gone. I'd love a little more sweetness if possible but it certainly wasn't bad.

http://www.vimeo.com/239462275

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slipchuck

Postby slipchuck » replying to Endodude » Oct 23, 2017, 11:12 am

Bump the temperature down one degree at a time until you find the sweet spot between sour and bitter. Should be the sweetest at that point.
You can also do a ristretto which is sweet and bold once you get comfortable with a normal shot

Randy
“There is nobody you can’t learn to like once you’ve heard their story.”

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bluesman

Postby bluesman » Oct 23, 2017, 12:40 pm

slipchuck wrote:Bump the temperature down one degree at a time until you find the sweet spot between sour and bitter. Should be the sweetest at that point. You can also do a ristretto which is sweet and bold once you get comfortable with a normal shot

It's no longer sour when taken up to 204, so going one degree higher would be the only reasonable option now. MG, like many coffees, tends toward sour at temps below its sweet spot & bitter above. 203-205 is the Josuma recommendation, and it works for me. One degree can make a clear difference with this one, but 204 may be best for the OP's equipment. So it may get a bit bitter at 205, but it's easy enough to find out.