Counter-intuitive week-old-coffee tip from Ellie - Page 2

#11: Post by **another_jim** » April 25th, 2008, 12:20 pm

It does make sense of one thing. I drink my espresso within a few days to a week of roasting; and I generally have better luck with lower doses. I think other home roasters are getting similar results. But in commercial settings and barista competition, the prevailing custom is to use coffees that are over a week past roast, and to dose fairly heavily. For instance, Klatch's USBC trial blend blend that I'm trying now is 10 days post roast, and tastes excellent at higher doses, but just average at low ones.

#12: Post by **malachi** » April 25th, 2008, 11:23 pm

Over a week?
Really?
I've never worked anywhere that worked with coffee that old. For the most part I've worked with blends that were best at 4 to 5 days out.

#13: Post by HB » April 25th, 2008, 11:35 pm

malachi wrote:Over a week?
Really?

Yes, really. For example, starting mid last year, the rest period for several of Counter Culture's espresso blends increased from the nearly universally recognized 3-4 days to 7-9 days. I have no idea why.

#14: Post by **another_jim** » April 26th, 2008, 12:08 am

malachi wrote:I've never worked anywhere that worked with coffee that old. For the most part I've worked with blends that were best at 4 to 5 days out.

I was thinking mostly about Klatch's blends for Heather Perry's competition appearances which I think are superb. Unfortunately, they undermine my usual advocacy for fresh roasted coffees down dosed, since they are at their best up dosed and about 7 to 10 days post roast.

#15: Post by **r-gordon-7** » April 26th, 2008, 11:15 am

I assume, however, that this approach (grind more coarsely & updose) would be less likely to work on a lever machine, as lever machines typically require a more fine grind regardless... correct?

r-gordon-7

#16: Post by **Elbasso** » April 26th, 2008, 2:35 pm

HB wrote:Yes, really. For example, starting mid last year, the rest period for several of Counter Culture's espresso blends increased from the nearly universally recognized 3-4 days to 7-9 days. I have no idea why.

I guess the resting happens in sealed containers or something alike? Cause if I leave my beans in the hopper for more than a week the espresso tastes flat as a pancake. No amount of updosing or grinding the beans to dust can save the aroma's.

Elbasso

#17: Post by HB » April 26th, 2008, 8:46 pm

Elbasso wrote:I guess the resting happens in sealed containers or something alike?

That's correct, the coffee degasses in a sealed bag with one-way valve.

#18: Post by **malachi** » April 27th, 2008, 7:41 pm

another_jim wrote:I was thinking mostly about Klatch's blends for Heather Perry's competition appearances which I think are superb. Unfortunately, they undermine my usual advocacy for fresh roasted coffees down dosed, since they are at their best up dosed and about 7 to 10 days post roast.

HB wrote:Yes, really. For example, starting mid last year, the rest period for several of Counter Culture's espresso blends increased from the nearly universally recognized 3-4 days to 7-9 days. I have no idea why.

Damn...
I have to say that sounds wrong to me.
I've had a few Aussie coffees that we spec'ed to that sort of age - but they all had robusta in them and the "excessive" aging was a result (and of course the robusta "protected" the appearance from degrading with that age).

Now... to be fair, just 'cause one roaster has switched some of their espresso blends to that sort of suggestion and another has one blend that fits the parameters doesn't actually support the earlier claim that this is "the prevailing custom" in commercial settings.

April 27th, 2008, 7:59 pm

malachi wrote:Damn...
I have to say that sounds wrong to me.
I've had a few Aussie coffees that we spec'ed to that sort of age - but they all had robusta in them and the "excessive" aging was a result (and of course the robusta "protected" the appearance from degrading with that age).

There was no robusta in Heather's week-old blend, and that's what she won "best espresso" with at the WBC last year.

#20: Post by HB » April 27th, 2008, 8:00 pm

malachi wrote:Damn... I have to say that sounds wrong to me.

I agree, that was my take on it too, but the improvement for Counter Culture's Toscano between day 4 and day 7 was not subtle. To give credit where credit is due, it was actually Geoff Corey (owner of the former Pheasant Creek Coffee) who brought it to my attention last year. At the time it was the difference between baking soda on day 3 and sweet raisins on day 7. IIRC, their recommended brew temperature has lowered too, which only goes to remind us that we're dealing with an agricultural product and seasonal changes should be expected.