Cortado help - Page 3

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
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TheMadTamper
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#21: Post by TheMadTamper »

Those bubbles.....tsk tsk.

But, yes, a Cortado is much closer to a shot than it is to a latte in taste. It's 1:1 roughly. The milk cuts the acid well, but its still a "shot" in its heart. Traditional cortado is still served in the demitasse: single shot, fill the rest with milk. Macchiato is really just a shot with EVER so slight softer flavor from the introduction of a tiny bit of fat. You're going between two extremes. Cortados are shots with a relatively small amount of milk. Lattes are "hot sweet milk" as they say in Italy. They're coffee flavored milk beverages - kind of an upside-down Macchiato.

But I haven't seen you mention cappuccino. The most popular, and the one that balances both your extremes. Better coffee to milk ratio than latte, better milk to coffee ratio than cortado. Of course if you prefer lattes, then you just prefer lattes. But if you're trying to get to a more intense coffee (which I assume you are since you're experimenting with cortados), that would seem like the logical route.
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slybarman (original poster)
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#22: Post by slybarman (original poster) replying to TheMadTamper »

I like caps as well. I was intrigued by the cortado, so thought I would give it a go. I find myself more inclined to add sugar to a cap - probably because there is less of the steamed milk which brings sweetness. So - yeah there is a bit of a common theme, I like the sugar/milk to balance the coffee - is what it is.

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TheMadTamper
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#23: Post by TheMadTamper replying to slybarman »

Sure, if you've already tried it and still prefer the latte, then you know what you like! Though there's not necessarily harm in adding sugar if you like it that way, despite what the snobby Pac-NW coffee scene may have you believe as they brew their raw green beans with 20 minute pre-infusion after grinding them with a mortar and pestle. There's a reason every bar in Italy has a tazza filled with sugar sticks after all... :wink:

Also, if you're doing a double shot into a 10oz latte, you actually have 2 normal cappuccinos in one cup, as a normal cappuccino is a single shot with 4oz milk (more or less.) Of course the main difference is really the thickness/foaminess of the milk. I enjoy "double" capps (double shot, normal 4-5oz volume capp) as well, but I'm partial to a traditional single capp. Which I'm betting, milk texture aside, is probably like your double lattes in milk ratio. Though, I go the opposite direction and only occasionally have them as it's a bit sweet and rich, so more suited as a dessert to me - I tend to prefer my shots and Americanos :oops:
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DaveB
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#24: Post by DaveB »

crunchybean wrote:Yes, well then its reasonable to say you do not know. Your micro-foam is degrading too quickly probably from not rolling well or hard enough. Let alone measuring the milk temp after its frothed and then poured is a poor assessment for steamed milk temp :roll: :roll: :roll: , where it is measured during the actual steaming process. I hope that makes sense and not taken as an offense. I do not think you are a bad person but your technique and analytics are. And therefor stating your temp and that "you don't think its worth it" is not a very valid point and more or less just an opinion, thats not very well flushed out.
Friend, when I've had caps / lattes prepared on $20,000+ machines by well-trained baristas at renowned coffee houses, the foam will indeed degrade if left sitting for a couple minutes - just as it does at home. I'd love to see real-time video evidence to the contrary if your personal experience is different.
crunchybean wrote:@OP, that microfoam is terrible (all of those bubbles). Sry you wasted your money.
You're venturing into troll territory with comments like that.
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crunchybean
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#25: Post by crunchybean »

Its about injecting the air into the fat globules as quickly (chirp) and thoroughly (roll) as possible. That will help stabilize your foam longer.

According to my map, I'm still in the woods. And by not understanding that the foam in those pours from the pic was indeed, bad. Then you have a long way to go.

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TheMadTamper
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#26: Post by TheMadTamper »

The bunny looks fine for a cup that's been sitting (and bonus points for difficult art - the barista knew how to pour.) But the tulips above it is pretty poor foam for a commercial bar. If i pour one that looks like that I have a serious debate in my head between just sinking it versus wasting milk & coffee, and OCD compels me to drink it as to not waste product, then make another to fix the nagging problem. :)

However, sometimes the problem is not the barista, but the milk. Case in point, my current bottle of milk has something seriously wrong with it, and I do not know what. Same machine, technique, and skill as all the previous bottles that have been the best foam of my life since getting the new machine. But this bottle? No matter what I do I get this weird separated foam that won't homogenize for anything, and in the cup it always looks like dish soap bubbles. It's acting like it maybe had been frozen at some point. Milk never behaves right after it's frozen. Tastes great though, even with the odd mouthfeel.
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slybarman (original poster)
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#27: Post by slybarman (original poster) »

TheMadTamper wrote:Sure, if you've already tried it and still prefer the latte, then you know what you like! Though there's not necessarily harm in adding sugar if you like it that way, despite what the snobby Pac-NW coffee scene may have you believe as they brew their raw green beans with 20 minute pre-infusion after grinding them with a mortar and pestle. There's a reason every bar in Italy has a tazza filled with sugar sticks after all... :wink:

Also, if you're doing a double shot into a 10oz latte, you actually have 2 normal cappuccinos in one cup, as a normal cappuccino is a single shot with 4oz milk (more or less.) Of course the main difference is really the thickness/foaminess of the milk. I enjoy "double" capps (double shot, normal 4-5oz volume capp) as well, but I'm partial to a traditional single capp. Which I'm betting, milk texture aside, is probably like your double lattes in milk ratio. Though, I go the opposite direction and only occasionally have them as it's a bit sweet and rich, so more suited as a dessert to me - I tend to prefer my shots and Americanos :oops:
This morning I started with a latte from the Lusso GMC to get my caffeine fix. The latte was particularly good. I feel like I have the Lusso GMC dialed in quite well. For my second drink I tried a cortado ratio but with the some sugar added. It was definitely more drinkable to me with some sugar, but just not as enjoyable as the latte was. The sweetness that is imparted from sugar is different from the sweetness imparted by steamed milk - it is also a lot more "in-your-face" so you end up with both the very strong coffee and the very strong sweet at the same time. In comparison the latte is just super smooth. I'll keep playing with different ratios to see if any others work better than the latte - perhaps something in the cappuccino range as discussed above. If nothing proves more enjoyable than a latte, then so be it - no shame in the game. For now at least, the cortado just isn't for me.

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TheMadTamper
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#28: Post by TheMadTamper replying to slybarman »

Yep. If starting with "I don't like shots", I think it was going to be pretty clear that you wouldn't like macchiato or cortado either. Both are mostly ways to alter or dress up a shot, but are very close relations to the straight espresso, fundamentally. If you're happy with lattes and not looking for something different, no reason to seek something different! If you're looking for a bit more intense a coffee flavor, I do think capps might appeal to you if you find the right balance of milk for it, and assuming the result isn't too different from how you make your lattes. An Italian style cap is a single shot, so if doing double shots in capps, it's a much stronger drink than the typical Italian cafe would serve.
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Sorel
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#29: Post by Sorel »

slybarman wrote:OP here.

Overall the cortado was still more strong/bitey/in-your-face than I prefer, particularly the first sip or two. I think ultimately it is just an acquired taste.
Like what you like. I'm really glad I found cortados, they're perfect afternoon drinks for me. I've noticed at some shops that bad 1st sip on a cortado before and have usually guessed they didn't stir the crema first. It's one of those things where I hesitate to break the pretty top like I do on a shot.

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#30: Post by mgwolf »

GMC dialed in quite well. For my second drink I tried a cortado ratio but with the some sugar added. It was definitely more drinkable to me with some sugar, but just not as enjoyable as the latte was. The sweetness that is imparted from sugar is different from the sweetness imparted by steamed milk -
Steve,
You might try some Lactose free milk if you're needing a little more sweetness. It has a slight natural sweetness to it.