Controlling variables for ideal Italian style double espresso

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RupertGenz
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#1: Post by RupertGenz »

Hi All, hoping for a little clarification here. As per the INEI, I have adjusted my dose and grind settings to yield ~50ml espresso in ~30s, using 17g beans. I realize this dose is higher than specified but seems ideal for my (18g?) basket. I've been pulling shots like this for several weeks while making small adjustments here and there and carefully tasting. The espresso is fine but not amazing.

I recently split my typical shot into 7 cups and realized I'm pulling way beyond where I believe most would cut the shot. My method of pulling until I hit 50ml did not take cone collapse or blonding into account. Now that I am cutting the shot based on visual cues, I only have ~35 ml in my "double."

Here is the question: how do I increase yield without upping my dose (already high for Italian style?) Grinding coarser will increase yield but won't the blonding just happen faster? And if this is my cue to cut the shot then won't I have same yield but now underextracted?

Final question? What is meant by "puckering" re: come shape?

Final caveat: I understand all of these guidelines and parameters are secondary to taste.

Thanks all for this forum, I'm learning a lot!

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JohnB.
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#2: Post by JohnB. »

Why would you want to increase yield beyond 35g if you are looking for an Italian style shot? Personally I'd be in the 25g-30g to range.
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RupertGenz (original poster)
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#3: Post by RupertGenz (original poster) »

I'm looking for an Italian style double

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JohnB.
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#4: Post by JohnB. »

I know & an Italian style double shot isn't the size of a small cup of coffee.
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yakster
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#5: Post by yakster »

-Chris

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RupertGenz (original poster)
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#6: Post by RupertGenz (original poster) »

My understanding from the INEI guidelines, the doubles I've had at cafes serving this style (not 3rd wave) and these forums (Italian vs. American dosing) is that a single is around 25 and a double is twice that.

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civ
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#7: Post by civ »

Hello:
RupertGenz wrote: ... for an Italian style double
If I understand correctly, you are referring to a doppio.
A solo would be one espresso and a doppio, the sum of two espressi.

I recall that at one time the Istituto Nazionale Espresso Italiano defined an espresso as being 7.5 gr. ground coffee through which you passed ~30 cc water at ~88/90 °C and ~9.0 bar pressure during ~30s but this is not in their web page any more.

I make mine with 15.0 (+0.2/-0.0) grams of southern style roast at 89/91°C and 9.0 bar, stopping at a hint of blonding.
This is usually ~30s with 60 cc. in the cup.

Unless something went sideways. 8^|°

Cheers,

CIV

RupertGenz (original poster)
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#8: Post by RupertGenz (original poster) »

Hi CIV, yes by double I mean what you describe as doppio. This http://www.espressoitaliano.org/files/F ... _hq_en.pdf basically agrees with your memory while adding other parameters like total yield of ~25ml. The chart can only be referring to a single/solo, making a double/doppio ~50ml.

But look, we're getting off track! True size of a doppio isn't relevant, can anyone advise on the initial questions? I value your knowledge!

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JohnB.
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#9: Post by JohnB. »

This is usually ~30s with 60 cc. in the cup.

Unless something went sideways. 8^|°

Cheers,

CIV
At 60cc/gr I think you have crossed the line from an Espresso shot to an Americano.
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homeburrero
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#10: Post by homeburrero »

Don't forget that the Italian guidelines are for volume in the cup including froth, so 60 ml (aka 60 cc) would probably weigh less than 40 grams, and for an 18g dose is at the same ratio as the INEI solo (7 g in, 25 ml out).
RupertGenz wrote:how do I increase yield without upping my dose (already high for Italian style?)
Finer grind, better grinder, better grooming, lower dose, longer extraction time should all tend to increase the extraction yield (i.e., the percentage of the coffee dose that ends up in the cup.) But focusing on high extraction yield may be letting the tail wag the dog, especially if your taste favors ristretto-ish shots.

P.S.
For reporting and analyzing measurements you are better off using grams in and grams out instead of volume out. Volume is too variable depending on the amount and density of crema.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

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