Channeling on new Ceado E37S - with and without WDT

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brickbot

#1: Post by brickbot »

Hey all, looking for some help diagnosing channeling on my new Ceado E37S.

I'm upgrading from a Baratza Sette 270Wi (fantastic grinder but failed 3 times in 3 years on ~10-15 shots per day). I've run 2-3lbs of coffee through the E37S, and while the shots are starting to taste somewhat OK, there's terrible channeling. I've also been pulling some great shots with a Baratza Virtuoso with the exact same puck prep.

I've experimented with grind size and so far haven't seen much of a difference in the amount of channeling. I've also experimented a bunch with puck prep including:
  • WDT
  • Rotating the portafilter while grinding
  • Tamping at different pressure
  • Changing dose size
  • Grinding into a separate vessel
  • Using a distributor tool
  • Reducing preinfusion time
So far the only thing that's made a noticeable difference has been increasing the dose to 18g (it's a 15-18g portafilter) and grinding into a separate vessel, though both still produce lots of channeling.

Here's a shot where I ground into a container, stirred the grinds with a needle, transferred into the portafilter, performed WDT in the portafilter, levelled with a distributor tool, and tamped at normal pressure:
And then here's a different shot where I ground into a container, shook the container, transferred into the portafilter, levelled with my finger (NSEW), and tamped at normal pressure:
My hunch is that I just need to season the grinder more, but I'm kind of skeptical that it's that simple, especially since changing the puck prep does seem to make a difference. One thing I've noticed that's interesting is that the shots often start looking great and then start to visibly channel 10-15s in, so I'm wondering if this is somehow about the puck breaking down too early? Let me know what other info I can provide.

Thanks in advance!

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jdrobison

#2: Post by jdrobison »

Assuming you're running the same coffee through the other grinders, we can rule out the possibility that it's just a particularly challenging bean, right? If so, I'd recommend testing the alignment. I spent some time aligning my E37S and it made a huge difference in the grind quality and consistency.

foam2

#3: Post by foam2 »

what kind of pressure is your machine running at? If you are at 9+ at the group you could easily get channeling.

brickbot (original poster)

#4: Post by brickbot (original poster) »

@jdrobinson: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it's not specific to the bean - I've been pulling shots for months on this roast. It did occur to me that I'm onto a new bag that I haven't ground in the Virtuoso yet, so I'll double check that and report back if it's got similar problems. That's a great idea to look into the alignment. Is there a guide that you liked specific to the E37S for that?

@foam2: re pressure, so, this is a Breville Infuser, which has a 15 bar pump and OPV set to 15 bar (not ideal!). In reality the extraction pressure tends to be lower, and according to the pressure gauge on the machine these shots were at ~11 bar. However, since I've been able to get really nice extractions without noticeable channeling on lesser grinders, it seems odd to me that the E37S wouldn't be able to at least match the other grinders. Thoughts?

brickbot (original poster)

#5: Post by brickbot (original poster) »

One other thing to add: if I don't do anything special to distribute (ie grind directly into the portafilter) I end up with the distinctive "mohawk" extraction pattern that others seem to be getting sometimes as well:

Jack Leveler + E37S = Channeling like crazy... Can't Win

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espressotime

#6: Post by espressotime »

Beautiful shots giving out the good stuff till the end. I wouldn't worrie too much about that little spritzer.
Grind,rake ,tamp and enjoy a great espresso.( by F. G.)

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cafeIKE
Supporter ★

#7: Post by cafeIKE »

brickbot wrote:18g (it's a 15-18g portafilter)
too much coffee, pressure likely to high.
Reduce dose & pressure. Grind finer.
espressotime wrote:Beautiful shots giving out the good stuff till the end. I wouldn't worrie too much about that little spritzer.
Don't invite me over! Shots are toast in the first few seconds before the first drop falls.

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espressotime

#8: Post by espressotime »

cafeIKE wrote:too much coffee, pressure likely to high.
Reduce dose & pressure. Grind finer.


Don't invite me over! Shots are toast in the first few seconds before the first drop falls.
Don't worry. :mrgreen:
But the machine is a Breville. It ain't a KvdW.
Grind,rake ,tamp and enjoy a great espresso.( by F. G.)

jdrobison

#9: Post by jdrobison »

brickbot wrote:@jdrobinson: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it's not specific to the bean - I've been pulling shots for months on this roast. It did occur to me that I'm onto a new bag that I haven't ground in the Virtuoso yet, so I'll double check that and report back if it's got similar problems. That's a great idea to look into the alignment. Is there a guide that you liked specific to the E37S for that?
Nope. Just follow the same procedure that you would for, say, the EK43. Perger made a pretty straight forward video walking through the process.

Komponistkalle

#10: Post by Komponistkalle » replying to jdrobison »

Aligning the burrs made a huge difference for me. One thing to keep in mind is that Ceado may claim that it voids the warranty, or so they told me. But I do think that realignment of the burrs is a basic task that should be allowed to be done by the end user. It can make a big, big difference.

Another thing that comes to mind is: Aren't both Baratza Sette and Baratza Virtuoso conical grinders? If so, I believe that they may produce more fines than the E37S. That would make it easier to create an acceptable backpressure for more even extractions (in terms of flow uniformity). So I think that the E37S would require a much lower pressure, not in excess of 9 bars. So, lowering the dose, grinding finer and lowering the pressure. And if your beans are towards the lighter end of the spectrum, then grinding MUCH finer and adding some preinfusion would help.

The E37S is a fine grinder, and I think you will grow to like it! Good luck!