Change in taste of result over time?
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I've seen some comments referring to this - you pull your shot, take a sip, like it, pause to remove and clean the pf and group, sip again and - it's - different. Could be better, worse, meh, but definitely different.
I am learning that if it's super, take a moment right then to savor it all. and if it's meh, let it sit for a moment as it will likely improve.
I need to rent-a-Dan, or rent-a-Jeff (etc) for a minute to learn how they label tastes on brews, as I am poor on labeling other than "I really like this one!!!" or "meh".
But wondering what is changing here. I do not stir the crema and I usually latte with unsweetened almond milk. (usually 19.0g ->40g, 20sec from first drip, ~5sec before first drip, tons of crema probably 'cause using fresh beans (frozen at ~8 days) ).
In any case I am having great fun with this! even a "meh" shot is truly enjoyed.
I am learning that if it's super, take a moment right then to savor it all. and if it's meh, let it sit for a moment as it will likely improve.
I need to rent-a-Dan, or rent-a-Jeff (etc) for a minute to learn how they label tastes on brews, as I am poor on labeling other than "I really like this one!!!" or "meh".
But wondering what is changing here. I do not stir the crema and I usually latte with unsweetened almond milk. (usually 19.0g ->40g, 20sec from first drip, ~5sec before first drip, tons of crema probably 'cause using fresh beans (frozen at ~8 days) ).
In any case I am having great fun with this! even a "meh" shot is truly enjoyed.
Life is too short for bad espresso! - Thunk-ed, NOT stirred!
- Jeff
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Here are a couple resources on how some people think about flavors past "sour" and "bitter"
https://counterculturecoffee.com/learn/ ... avor-wheel
https://notbadcoffee.com/flavor-wheel-en/
It will be more challenging to pick out flavors in a "milk" drink.
Hot drinks taste mainly "hot". Some people have said that espresso gets bitter when it cools (or was it sour?). I believe it is more that their espresso was bitter all along, but was subdued beneath the sensation of hot.
My own habit is that I don't preheat cups and don't taste until I've cleaned out and dried the basket and rinsed the spoon and puck screen. I stir as espresso falling into the cup doesn't seem to mix the early and late portions of the shot well, especially at classic flow rates.
https://counterculturecoffee.com/learn/ ... avor-wheel
https://notbadcoffee.com/flavor-wheel-en/
It will be more challenging to pick out flavors in a "milk" drink.
Hot drinks taste mainly "hot". Some people have said that espresso gets bitter when it cools (or was it sour?). I believe it is more that their espresso was bitter all along, but was subdued beneath the sensation of hot.
My own habit is that I don't preheat cups and don't taste until I've cleaned out and dried the basket and rinsed the spoon and puck screen. I stir as espresso falling into the cup doesn't seem to mix the early and late portions of the shot well, especially at classic flow rates.
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Thanks!
I tend not so much to get the "hot" taste as, after latte-ing it, it isn't really that too hot - straight espresso is too strong for me to enjoy - hot or warm or cold.
Since most of my drinks are with that unsweetened almond milk, that just falls into the background for me. Early on (with a hot machine) I was only getting bitter or sour. As I am using a cooler machine I am getting other flavors as well - the wheels will be a big help - having fun with identifying!
I do not pre-heat my cups or graduated beaker into which I brew other than to leave them on the top of the machine so they are "not cold" but just slightly warm. I do not pre-heat the pf holder/basket. With my present procedure I suppose I could but laziness has ruled and to a certain real extent "keeping things constant".
Thanks!
I tend not so much to get the "hot" taste as, after latte-ing it, it isn't really that too hot - straight espresso is too strong for me to enjoy - hot or warm or cold.
Since most of my drinks are with that unsweetened almond milk, that just falls into the background for me. Early on (with a hot machine) I was only getting bitter or sour. As I am using a cooler machine I am getting other flavors as well - the wheels will be a big help - having fun with identifying!
I do not pre-heat my cups or graduated beaker into which I brew other than to leave them on the top of the machine so they are "not cold" but just slightly warm. I do not pre-heat the pf holder/basket. With my present procedure I suppose I could but laziness has ruled and to a certain real extent "keeping things constant".
Thanks!
Life is too short for bad espresso! - Thunk-ed, NOT stirred!
- cafeIKE
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'Sweetness' perception changes with temperature. Eat ice cream at room temperature and you might gagJeff wrote:I believe it is more that their espresso was bitter all along, but was subdued beneath the sensation of hot.
FWIW, I brew into a warm cup, clean the group and then sample. Taste delta between hot off the presses and rested a bit is mitigated and the 'actual' flavor persists more evenly.
Ian's Coffee Stuff
http://www.ieLogical.com/coffee
http://www.ieLogical.com/coffee
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Tasting hot will deminish your perception of flavours. There's a sweet spot and I follow pretty much the same routine as Jeff. Pull the shot into a room temperature demitasse, set aside. Empty and rinse the basket, flush the group, reset the scale, wipe the drip tray.... Then I stir the shot, sit down with my notebook and a glass of water and often let it cool for an additional minute. If there's a taste defect it was there when it was hot, not because you let it cool.
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Thanks - nah, I'll eat ice cream at any temp!cafeIKE wrote:'Sweetness' perception changes with temperature. Eat ice cream at room temperature and you might gag
FWIW, I brew into a warm cup, clean the group and then sample. Taste delta between hot off the presses and rested a bit is mitigated and the 'actual' flavor persists more evenly.
So you have a minute or 2 delay before sipping.
It's late here (6:30PMEDT) but I really wanted a shot so only let machine warm up for 30 min and then pulled. I liked the first sip so this time I took my own advice and continued sipping until it was gone - VERY enjoyable - gotta do that more often. Tried the second taste-wheel link and got spicy/ orange-cinnamon. slightly sweet but very background. Lingers long and pleasing on my tongue. I will work more with both those taste wheels immediately after drinking a shot to train my taste buds and brain. Delicious, but gotta go clean the brew head! I just Cafiza'ed it before shutting down last night and apparently I rinsed it well enough as I got no off taste from either pull today. Did taste more clean.
You are (I assume) drinking it straight. It may well be that the change-over-time that I am experiencing is due to a reaction between the hot espresso and the slightly less hot stretched almond milk, but i any case I seem to like it right after I add the milk, so that is what I will do.
Lowering the temp has made a world of difference for me - much widening the area of the sweetspot to more of a sweet-area, making it much easier to avoid the bitter, or sour ends of the spectrum, where, before I seemed to be balancing on a knife edge. Now, virtually any pull is good.
Life is too short for bad espresso! - Thunk-ed, NOT stirred!
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The wheels help a lot. This morning's was bright spicy nutty cocoa almond. (half courthouse half RB sweet brazil)(new 1kg courthouse is only at 4 days and wanted to finish old.)(the courthouse broadens the RB(redbird) )(Maybe order Prana next as RB is nearing end.)(I am finding the 8oz mason jars a bit fiddly and will use 16oz jars when I freeze courthouse.)
Life is too short for bad espresso! - Thunk-ed, NOT stirred!
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I followed this and pixellate's advice and didn't preheat the cup and let it cool a little before I drank a shot yesterday and wow, what a difference. What I thought was sour, now tasted slightly bitter, and actually better than previous shots. Most newbie advice tells you to make sure everything is preheated before tasting. Interesting.Jeff wrote: Hot drinks taste mainly "hot". Some people have said that espresso gets bitter when it cools (or was it sour?). I believe it is more that their espresso was bitter all along, but was subdued beneath the sensation of hot.
My own habit is that I don't preheat cups and don't taste until I've cleaned out and dried the basket and rinsed the spoon and puck screen. I stir as espresso falling into the cup doesn't seem to mix the early and late portions of the shot well, especially at classic flow rates.
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As if I don't already measure/quantify enough variables when it comes to this silly little drink, I'll try to remember to grab my Thermapen tomorrow morning and measure my ideal drinking temperature.
I should probably seek professional help.
I should probably seek professional help.
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I had the same palate feeling that, sipping the espresso about 5 minutes later, it make me feel more flavors, especially all the flavors i can smell just after brewed.
Palate and smells are obviously a very "personal" matter, so i wont dig in any science conclusion, that's just my experience.
Palate and smells are obviously a very "personal" matter, so i wont dig in any science conclusion, that's just my experience.