A couple of weeks ago I was visiting my parents in LA and I was desperate for an espresso drink, so I made the mistake of going to the local Starbucks. (I know, I know!) I ordered a double macchiatto, figuring at least then it wouldn't come in a huge cup drowning in milk. The PBTC asked me what size I wanted. I was a bit puzzled, but eventually ordered a short. That only caused further confusion. They finally served me the drink in a "tall" cup. Apparently, Starbucks doesn't train their staff to know that a macchiato is always small, since there's hardly any milk in it.

Beezer wrote:Apparently, Starbucks doesn't train their staff to know that a macchiato is always small, since there's hardly any milk in it.

I usually get the "deer in the headlights" look at ANY Starbucks if I'd order a "double" Americano. So apparently, many PBTCs don't even know what the f' a "double" shot is. I'd eventually have to explain I wanted the "Grande" or somesuch coffee portion, but in a small cup and/or half as much water . Silliness.

If you look at the Starbuck's website, they claim varied caffeine amounts in the Short, Tall, Grande, and Venti sizes of an Americano. Somehow I am doubting that they actually pull single, double, triple, quad as the site might suggest (link).

Beezer wrote: Apparently, Starbucks doesn't train their staff

Ya had me at 'hello'. Apparently, in most places if there isn't a button for it on the cash register, it doesn't exist.
It used to be that Howard Schultz drink was a short, skinny cappuccino. Odd, that turns out to be a traditional cappa! Odder still, it doesn't actually exist on the menu, the baristi (back when they kinda were) just knew that it was one of the things that they made. Lately, though, when there is nothing else, I've gone to order a short double cappa (if for no other reason that it's hard to put too much milk in, and there is half a chance that they think I'm Schultzie so they treat me decent) and their response has been universally, <Simpson's cracking voiced clerk voice>" I'm sorry sir, we don't have any short cups."</Simpson's cracking voiced clerk voice>
To which I respond, dripping with disdain, "You could put it in a tall cup, couldn'cha?"
I don't know why they have to go through this ritual every time, but fortunately I'm not reduced to Starbucks as the last resort very often.

It's not very often I venture for outside of my own apartment for coffee.

I'm disappointed, every single time, so I just don't do it unless it's for social or other non-coffee reasons.

You know me, I've got an espresso machine and a grinder at every domicile, and a roadbox for when I have to stay somewhere else. Occasionally, the gig's pace is too fast to be able to pack and unpack the kit twice a day, or there isn't enough room for it, or there isn't going to be any electricity and fire isn't an option (although, I took a steamtoy out in the middle of nowhere when we had to take a genny to charge batteries!) Sometimes its crap or nothing. I'll grant you, there have been many times when nothing wins!

If you'll note, I didn't say never.

If I'm in another city where I know there's not really a known good option, I'll sometimes opt for a drip from the green monster, or a french press from the same if there's the time.

jersievers wrote: The server told me they were the same...what?

IMHO the server was partially correct...if customers dont ask me for 'traditional' cappuccino i serve them 6oz cup with double shot of espresso (or 4,5oz cup and single) and the best microfoam i can make...with rosetta or heart on top. If they specifically ask for traditional then obviously i make 1/3,1/3,1/3 drink...therefore, latte and cappa are the same drinks, the only difference is the size of the cup (and yes, i understand that some people are going for thicker microfoam for cappas and pouring just hearts...)

i dont think the baristi today should be following old rules from Italy to make the drinks...microfoam is better tasting, latte art makes the drink look amazing, if you like it old school way then you have to ask for it...

im just surprised this kind of debate still takes place in 2007! every SCAE or SCAA competition i have seen (well, not that many:) presents the cappuccinos this way...

2-czech wrote:...therefore, latte and cappa are the same drinks, the only difference is the size of the cup (and yes, i understand that some people are going for thicker microfoam for cappas and pouring just hearts...)

i dont think the baristi today should be following old rules from Italy to make the drinks...microfoam is better tasting, latte art makes the drink look amazing, if you like it old school way then you have to ask for it...

im just surprised this kind of debate still takes place in 2007! every SCAE or SCAA competition i have seen (well, not that many:) presents the cappuccinos this way...

"BZZZZT! Thank you for playing, we have some nice consolation prizes for you in the back. Tell him what he's won, Johnny!"

While there are those that will make a latte and call it a cappuccino, that doesn't mean that the two are the same. The very reason that there are two names is so that the customer and the barista can distinguish between the two very different drinks. I.e, if I ask for a cappuccino, and the barista pours me a latte, I am not happy because I asked for a capp, and he is not happy because he has to make my drink all over again.
We are not following some old rules form Italy when we use two different word to describe two different things, we are using common sense (or not, as the case may be). If we are going to use the Italian words to describe the Italian drink that we make using Italian-styled techniques, then I'm suggesting that we make what it is. If you went to a bar and asked for a martini and you go onions instead of olives, you'd tell the bartender that he gave you a Gibson, and you'd be right. Technically, it's all the same booze, but if the bartender told you that it's the same because it's all the same booze, where would you get your next drink.
There are already three threads across three different fora discussing the need for espresso lexicon standardization. Remember, if I ask for a cappuccino in your shop, and you pour me a latte, you're going right back to work.

Psyd wrote: There are already three threads across three different fora discussing the need for espresso lexicon standardization. Remember, if I ask for a cappuccino in your shop, and you pour me a latte, you're going right back to work.

cant do nothing than agree, thanks for the reply...i was just a bit angry after several customers complaining about their cappas, asking where is their 1/3 of foam after i poured them perfect cappuccino with microfoam and rosetta. do you 'educate' every single customer about the advantages of the 'new' technique of steaming milk or you just dump the cup and go do it the 'traditional' way? i know customer is always right...but its really difficult when even those in the know (still) dont know:) [/end of rant]

As an ex-pro, I no longer have to deal with any customers other than those in front of me in line, so that problem is solved (at least, for the moment). As a present customer, I have to tell the barista what I want as a recipe, until I establish a rapport. This tends to irk some baristi, but I call it a self inflicted injury. If they can't agree what is called what, then they have to put up with me telling them what I want, and letting them call it whatever they want. If someone decides and everyone agrees, I'll stop.
As a Home Barista, you tell me what you want, and I explain to you what you said. If what I tell you sounds like what you want, away we go!