Recently my PID ECM Classika that I've had for two years was out of commission(reservoir plastic feed cracked), so I bought a Flair and a Kinu traveler to use in the meanwhile and bring to the office after the Classika was up and running. I've had the Flair for about three weeks now and the results I'm getting with the same roast are exceptionally better than my Classika. For the first time, I'm tasting sweet fruit flavor with a lingering mouth feel. The Classika (paired with a Sette), no matter how many shots I pull and how many variables I change, can't seem to produce a good shot. I'm doing 18 grams in a VST basket with 34 grams out in anywhere from 27-31 seconds, no issues with channeling.

Is this an experience anyone else has had with the Classika, or Sette perhaps? I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall with this set up.

I understand that you have changed your espresso machine and grinder at the same time? What makes you think it is the machine that makes the biggest impact on the taste?

Agree with Nick - how are things if you use the Kinu + Classika?

I'm using the same beans from the same roast, one set up is the Flair and Kinu and the other the Classika and Sette. I've been using the Classika for about two years and the Flair for a few weeks. The Flair in theory should be more difficult to use, yet I'm making excellent espresso with it, which has me looking at my Classika with a more critical eye. The shot from the Classika has good timing and flow, but the flavor is substantially off. The Ccrema does have a darker appearance with some small air bubbles on the side if that means anything.

I'm planning on trying out the Kinu as the variable soon, but in theory the Sette shouldn't be the problem.

kittenmittons wrote:Recently my PID ECM Classika that I've had for two years was out of commission(reservoir plastic feed cracked), so I bought a Flair and a Kinu traveler to use in the meanwhile and bring to the office after the Classika was up and running. I've had the Flair for about three weeks now and the results I'm getting with the same roast are exceptionally better than my Classika. For the first time, I'm tasting sweet fruit flavor with a lingering mouth feel. The Classika (paired with a Sette), no matter how many shots I pull and how many variables I change, can't seem to produce a good shot. I'm doing 18 grams in a VST basket with 34 grams out in anywhere from 27-31 seconds, no issues with channeling.

Is this an experience anyone else has had with the Classika, or Sette perhaps? I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall with this set up.

Just spitballing here and am assuming you've considered this already, but is the water temperature perhaps an issue? Are you comfortable with how hot you're brewing in each method?

Yeah that's definitely a variable I've thought about, I've adjusted it to as low as 195 and as high as 202. Very sour at 195 with yellow crema and burnt/bitter with darker crema at 202. I've settled on 199.

I'll wait to see the result you get with the Sette and the Flair. I imagine the Sette isn't the issue but I'm curious to see how it does paired with the Flair.

Are you pulling straight 9 bar shots with no preinfusion on the flair or do u have a profile you are using. Levers are pretty much known for pulling sweetness out of shots.

kittenmittons wrote:I'm planning on trying out the Kinu as the variable soon, but in theory the Sette shouldn't be the problem.

I'm not trying to say that it would be only the grinder. I can get excellent results from both of my espresso machines (hx vs lever) even with different grinders, but they always taste different. Still it is a bit hasty to attribute the different results only to the machine if also the grinder is different.

If you can change the brew pressure of your Classika, try to lower it closer to the pressure of Flair. Levers extract coffee with less pressure than pump driven machines. I've set my HX to 8bars which produces slightly better results than 9bars. My lever goes roughly around 5-6bars. Lower pressure settings are usually more forgiving to user errors or difficult beans than higher pressure.

But the first thing would be switching grinders between machines and see what kind of an impact that makes.