Best tips for "exceptional espresso" - Page 3

#21: Post by **IPW20X** » August 12th, 2018, 10:53 pm

Tonefish wrote:Interesting that roasters rest and store a roast to out-gas the CO2 and she's forcing it back in at high pressure. Gimmick, solid science, or better espresso ... I wonder!?!

Preface: I'm far from an expert in any of this.....!

What I find interesting is, C02 is fairly inert. So outgassing or not should have no difference chemically, and from an extraction standpoint, it should only help. I'm starting to think the resting beans for CO2 outgassing idea has more to do with pulling shots by volume instead of weight. When shots are pulled by volume, more C02 off gassing gives the impression of greater crema in terms of volume, which would throw off time/grind parameters, but the weight of the shot would be unchanged relative to a "rested" bean that has off gassed C02. Have baristas been fooling themselves all these years pulling shots based on volume??

#22: Post by **aecletec** » August 12th, 2018, 11:32 pm

Outgassing in a bar situation is to help with consistency in pulling shots etc. It's difficult to continuously dial in when you need to be pulling shots.
I've had amazing shots in the first few days of a roast but the settings change drastically day to day.
Adding gas is a great idea and may also stabilise the volume/crema on a day-by day basis due to outgassing. Some like the mouthfeel from a small amount of MM or robusta, which is a similar idea...
Volume is variable based on many factors so consistency is tough over time, hence the rise of scales and also in the "old days" robusta/MM would give reliable crema and shot volume when scales weren't used...

August 13th, 2018, 12:46 am

I've done the grind straight from the deep freezer approach, I've done the opposite with heated beans (sous vide bath or microwave) all in the name of futzing around if it made better tasting shots with pre second crack roasts. The heated beans yield sweet tasting light roasted shots, but is rather tedious and time consuming. I don't know the science behind why letting bright shots cool diminishes the acidity and harshness, but it seems to work.

The type of coffee I enjoy best as espresso is roasted akin to what Caffe Lusso puts out, and other like them, maybe a hair lighter, Nossa Familia Full Cycle or my roasts in that range. On the darker spectrum, Scarlet City Warp Drive, you get delicious shots easily as long as you keep them very very short ristretto. They pack an intense gamut of flavors that last for quite a while and none of them are acrid or bitter or burned. These don't require any fiddling. So at some point, I'm prone to ask myself, how much fiddling is a coffee worth if it's better to just filter brew it? If I have to dilute it or drastically alter it in order to enjoy it, I'm more inclined to do something else.

Scott Rao revealed a week or two ago that the only way he ever drinks espresso is as an americano. I found that tidbit interesting.

#24: Post by **mike guy** » August 15th, 2018, 10:32 am

another_jim wrote:In the last decade or so, there's been a rather large change in what an exceptional espresso is.

This sounds more like an indictment of hobby group think and image sharing than anything else. I know my first experiences in espresso were chasing the look of the thick overly gassy huge cone shots of I saw online because that was what it was supposed to look like. Turns out an exceptional espresso has nothing to do with a specific style anymore than an exceptional wine has to do with a specific varietal. The key to exceptional espresso is to get the most out of what the roaster had intended for that batch of beans. Sometimes that's a big chocolaty thick shot like lionshare. The type that you can't even fit 40g into a demitasse because it has so much volume and body. Other times it's not. Years ago some of the extractions that I now produce would have been considered sink shots just by look if you posted a video of it. Thankfully espresso isn't a boring hobby and there are many different flavors and styles to chase, and as many or more complexities as any other beverage flavor wheel.

At the end of the day the only small tip I can offer is to drink enough coffee to know what the beans are supposed to taste like and know what variables to tweak to highlight the flavors you want. The lightbulb went off for me one day when I was brewing a hama that was the most blueberry like coffee I ever had, and I tweaked the recipe to bring it out even more. Making a shot that you intended to make, that is what exceptional espresso is.

#25: Post by **Maconi** » August 15th, 2018, 11:59 am

From what I can tell in my research, drinking espresso while it's uncomfortably hot used to hide poor beans/technique (your tounge can't accurately taste things at that temperature). If you have high quality beans and use proper technique it should still taste great when it cools (maybe even tasting better) from what I can tell.

IPW20X wrote:Preface: I'm far from an expert in any of this.....!

What I find interesting is, C02 is fairly inert. So outgassing or not should have no difference chemically, and from an extraction standpoint, it should only help. I'm starting to think the resting beans for CO2 outgassing idea has more to do with pulling shots by volume instead of weight. When shots are pulled by volume, more C02 off gassing gives the impression of greater crema in terms of volume, which would throw off time/grind parameters, but the weight of the shot would be unchanged relative to a "rested" bean that has off gassed C02. Have baristas been fooling themselves all these years pulling shots based on volume??

I believe that's the reason most have switched to using weight (usually in grams) now. Especially if you're using brew ratios (which you probably should be).

#26: Post by **NoStream** » August 15th, 2018, 4:18 pm

TomC wrote:These don't require any fiddling. So at some point, I'm prone to ask myself, how much fiddling is a coffee worth if it's better to just filter brew it? If I have to dilute it or drastically alter it in order to enjoy it, I'm more inclined to do something else.

Scott Rao revealed a week or two ago that the only way he ever drinks espresso is as an americano. I found that tidbit interesting.

Regarding Rao, he said that was to avoid palate fatigue.

Regarding light roasts, I find them less fiddly, perhaps because I'm more used to using them. Pull in the 1:2 to 1:3 range with 6-8 bars pressure and a decent flat grinder and you should get good results.

I enjoy ristrettos too, but I find them more fiddly since you aren't extracting much. You have to find a local maximum. Mostly, I just enjoy them when done well, e.g. by Linea sometimes. (I also don't own a conical grinder anymore.)

#27: Post by **tossik** » August 16th, 2018, 4:27 am

dragoic1 wrote:
And stir 20 times with a small spoon.

.

Then chew once per tooth

#28: Post by **AssafL** » August 16th, 2018, 7:11 am

mike guy wrote:This sounds more like an indictment of hobby group think and image sharing than anything else. I know my first experiences in espresso were chasing the look of the thick overly gassy huge cone shots of I saw online because that was what it was supposed to look like. Turns out an exceptional espresso has nothing to do with a specific style anymore than an exceptional wine has to do with a specific varietal.

One has to be careful about judging a previous version of one's self... The main reason not to judge is it implies an impartiality. As if what we have now is objectively "better" than what we had previously. But it isn't - flavor perception is subjective.

Subjective perceptions are always governed by narrative.

The narrative of what is good evolved - from quick (espresso!) to mouthfeel to tasting as good as it smelled (Schomer) to being like filter. Tomorrow the narrative will go elsewhere...

Now lets get back to the mundane business of writing tomorrow's narrative.

IMHO - what really changed in the context of espresso (for me at least) is the ability to converse EY and CBR and recipes. That lifted that "voodooness" we used to have (with intermingled great and sink shots).

Once one achieves consistency one is then able to traverse the BCCs to whatever narrative they happen to choose. WDT did the most to ensure consistency in dire circumstances (like dry air).

December 17th, 2018, 9:05 am

Add some sugar.Not to sweeten but to take the sharpness away.I add 0.3 grams of it.I haven't tasted an espresso yet in 30 years of espresso drinking that didn't taste better with sugar.
At 5 shots a day that makes 1.5 grams of sugar.I'll live.

December 17th, 2018, 9:50 am

The best advice I ever heard RE: adding sugar: "Good coffee doesn't need sugar; bad coffee doesn't deserve it." I was hoping my wife would remember where we heard this. It might have been a Dutch barista.

In any case, adding sugar as a way to produce exceptional espresso seems analogous to adding ketchup as a way to produce exceptional steak. Just my opinion, natch.