And sometimes you have to updose - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
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malachi

#11: Post by malachi »

Address7 wrote:Just a quick note on comparing my preference for pulling big triples tight with the Klatch Belle Espresso above with Jim's statement.
Once you're working with a triple basket it's a different entire game.
I think we're basically talking about dose in a double basket here.
"Taste is the only morality." -- John Ruskin

Ken Fox

#12: Post by Ken Fox »

14g dosing or thereabouts (I hesitate to use the terms "downdosing" or "correct" or "Italianish" dosing) does not work for coffees (generally blends) that were designed, from the git-go, to be updosed. I have stated exactly this in several earlier threads on dosing.

I'm sure that many regard me as some sort of fringe character, however blends for the most part do not interest me. Single varietals are where it is at, for me, and in the very small universe of SOs that can work for espresso, most will be dry processed Africans and most will do just fine at about 14g.

But I'd be the first to say that taking a "marquee blend" designed for 20+ gram triple basket shots and then dosing it 14g in a double basket, will produce something akin to dishwater. Every time I have tried to do this I have not liked it one bit.

My solution, which will not be shared by most, is to avoid those blends and to go for suitable single origins.

But then, that is just me.

ken
What, me worry?

Alfred E. Neuman, 1955

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AndyS

#13: Post by AndyS »

Ken Fox wrote:I'm sure that many regard me as some sort of fringe character, however blends for the most part do not interest me. Single varietals are where it is at
Agree 100%, I avoid blends. It's the exact same thing with wine. For instance, I would NEVER drink a bottle of Bordeaux -- yuck, a BLEND -- when there are so many nice California SO cabernets available. I'm sure you feel the same way.
-AndyS
VST refractometer/filter basket beta tester, no financial interest in the company

Ken Fox

#14: Post by Ken Fox » replying to AndyS »

Dearest Andy,

I hope you detest the "wine-coffee" analogies as much as I do. Since you are a person of taste (other than for being a vegetarian) I would assume that to be the case.

When the perpetrators of coffee blends have had as long as the Bordelaise have had to work things out, I promise to give their efforts more credence. In the interim (a couple hundred years) I'll stick to the SOs.

Fondly,

ken
What, me worry?

Alfred E. Neuman, 1955

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malachi

#15: Post by malachi »

The wine analogy is both over-used and inaccurate.

Beyond that... a good Bordeaux is an incredible product. Period.
"Taste is the only morality." -- John Ruskin

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drdna

#16: Post by drdna »

Ken Fox wrote:When the perpetrators of coffee blends have had as long as the Bordelaise have had to work things out, I promise to give their efforts more credence. In the interim (a couple hundred years) I'll stick to the SOs.
I think the new Sweet Maria's Espresso Workshop blends are exactly the thing you have been waiting for.

Adrian
Adrian

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drdna

#17: Post by drdna »

another_jim wrote:East African washed coffees do well at low doses. I started all this dosing stuff in order to pull good shots from washed Yrgs. Rwandas and the rarer Tanzes and Kenyas that work at any dose usually work at low doses. It's the Centrals that seem to prefer high doses.
Yes, and also Kona as a SO espresso seems to demand updosing.

Adrian
Adrian

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timo888

#18: Post by timo888 »

Some coffees that respond well to updosing might also respond well, but in a different way, to lowered doses.

It may seem counter-intuitive, but coffees that taste weak or 'blah' might taste fuller or more complex if the dose is reduced, which would facilitate a more complete extraction. Increasing the dose could result in a higher solids ratio, yet still might be under-extracting specific sought-after flavor compounds, so you end up with a more intense monotony.

By reducing the dose you do run the risk of over-extracting, so the dose-reduction should be done in smallish increments, and you might also want to pull a smaller shot too. Whereas people often cram 4 additional grams into the basket when updosing, dose-reductions should probably be done no more than a gram at a time, if that.

Ken Fox

#19: Post by Ken Fox »

malachi wrote:The wine analogy is both over-used and inaccurate.

Beyond that... a good Bordeaux is an incredible product. Period.
Not to mention Chateauneuf-du-Pape, Burgundies, and the products of other regions as well. In fact, the only Amazingly good non-blended ("SO") Red wines of France that I can think of are Burgundy, which is 100% Pinot Noir, and a few from the Northern Rhone Valley (which are Syrahs). There are a few other oddball French "SO" red wines, some made from Cabernet Franc and Pinot Noir, but most of the famous wines of France are in fact blends.

ken
What, me worry?

Alfred E. Neuman, 1955

Ken Fox

#20: Post by Ken Fox »

drdna wrote:Yes, and also Kona as a SO espresso seems to demand updosing.

Adrian
I'm surprised that Kona would be worth the effort for SO espresso. Although Konas tend to be very "clean," there is a certain flatness, simplicity, and "lack of flavor interest" (to me) that would give me little reason to try this coffee used for espresso. Also, for the money I would think you could buy at least twice as much of a more complex and interesting coffee than you could of Kona.

Just my opinion.

ken
What, me worry?

Alfred E. Neuman, 1955