7 gram single shot?? Mission impossible! - Page 6

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
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#51: Post by baldheadracing »

Jeff wrote:I received a part claimed to be La Marzocco #F.3.029 from an Amazon Marketplace vendor that is printed (or may be etched) "la marzocco 7g" and appears very similar to that in Bean Counter's photos.
Welcome to the world of getting the most out of expensive coffees that are sold in small bags! 8)
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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#52: Post by Peppersass »

The LM 7g basket offerings are definitely confusing. I consulted GS/3 parts manuals going back to 2011 through the latest version, as well as the current LMLM and Strada parts manuals. I also checked LM USA's latest parts price list. Here are my conclusions:

115/A: Original low-quality 7g basket. I believe it's plain sheet metal, perhaps galvanized, definitely not stainless. I have two that came as OEM with GS/3s in 2009, one of which has the entire hole pattern way off-center.

F.3.029: Advanced Precision basket. Same manufacturer and process as VST, without laser QA scan (i.e., may not meet VST specs). Sometimes listed as F.3.029S. Listed in the LM USA price list for $13.08. There's also a F.3.029.X listed for $39.39. Way more than any other 7g basket. No idea what that one is.

F.3.053: "INOX Italian" Stainless Steel. Only shown in LMLM and Strada manuals. The drawing shows it to be shallower than the other 7g models. $18.69 in the LM USA price list.

F.3.054: Advanced Precision Strada basket. These are identical to VST baskets, including the laser QA scan. The LM price list calls it "precision scanned", and lists it for $27.59, slightly less than the VST price, which I think is still $30.

The one that intrigues me is F.3.053. The depression in the bottom appears to be very shallow, perhaps allowing use of a standard 58mm tamper. i think it may be a similar concept to the IMS "The Single" 9G basket, which just has a shallow round depression in the bottom and is designed to be used with a 58mm tamper. Of course, the Tidaka would be useless with any basket requiring a 58mm tamper. I've only found one source of the F.3.053 basket other than LM, a Canadian restaurant supplier called PartsTown.

BTW, the 2011 parts manual also lists 115/F and 115/A/S versions of the 7g basket for Faema and Swift, respectively. Odd, because the Strada manual says the 115/A is for Swift Grinders. I can't recall which one right now, but one of the manuals says the F.3.029 isn't compatible with Swift grinders. I don't know much about Swift grinders, but it's not clear to me how any of these baskets could be incompatible with a grinder.

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#53: Post by baldheadracing »

My understanding is that the Swift grinder's tamping mechanism needs sticky basket sides, like the Swift Mini's: La Marzocco Swift Mini Review

F3053 is this basket:
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada


#54: Post by aleks »

Thank you for the links and the observations on the volume vs mass when estimating output. Not sure why Italian baristas only refer to volume, crema is clearly a confounding factor there.
Jeff wrote: With darker roasts, such as classic "espresso" roasts, extended preinfusion may bring out unwanted bitterness. I have found "no" preinfusion to provide better balance with US-style "espresso" blends than explicit delay for preinfusion.
I suspected the same. For myself, I will entirely skip pre-infusion from now on, when pulling singles.

I do have the 41mm LM single basket. If you have any other tips/advice, that would be great.
Do you think I should flow control, or just set a lowish pressure at the pump (7,8 bars) and keep it there for the sake of consistency, with my singles?

giboja (original poster)

#55: Post by giboja (original poster) »

Hi All

I have started this thread to get help as I was desperate with my new machine, Lelit Elizabeth, and not being able to get good single shot espresso.
Please bear in mind, for me, where I live, Croatia, there is NO such thing as single shot. It is "espresso". When you ask for espresso you get espresso-single shot.

It is always and only single shot and maybe after really really hard night, few times in my life I had double espresso.
My morning routine is 3 espresso in a row before I live for work.

Now, thanks to all comments and help from you I am finally able to get espresso on my new espresso machine.

I got LM1 basket, with Tidaka funnel and 41mm tamper and my espresso is sorted.
It is as it should be, 7 grams in, 15-30 out as I wish, crema is there and it taste amazing.

I got La Marzocco the single as well and it works so, so, if I put 9 gram in it, but not so good as LM1.

For medium light roast, as my favorite Lively Roasters Cost Rica is, the best recipe at the moment is:

8 bar coffee water pressure
12 sec, 3 bar preinfusion
20-25 sec production time from first drop which occur at app. 6-7 sec in preinfusion
for tamping pressure I will say medium light.

I am happy and want to thank for all advice's.
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#56: Post by aleks »

Thank you for the accurate recipe!!

Alsp, thank you for clarifying this about Espresso being a single shot in Coratia. The EXACT SAME happens in Italy, we call it caffè and it's rigorously a single shot of 6.5g-7.5g
Ordering a "doppio" is extremely rare and would get you a 14g dose.

I really like it this way, and now that I am in the US I miss such a "light" (caffeine wise) delicacy that we Italians consume all throughout the day at leisure.
We like to dilute our caffeine evenly throughout the day, and each time maybe change things up (a ristretto, a macchiato, cappuccino, a marocchino, a mokaccino, depending on the time of the day). Om a side note, this is similar to what happens with green tea in some Asian regions (it might have something to to with longevity and blue zones)

That's why I want to pull singles.

Glad to know that our Croatian neighbors are also following our culture in terms of Espresso :)

As we all know, in America and Australia gourmet coffee shops, you will be given 18-24g shots. I cannot do 3\4 of these a day and survive.

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#57: Post by samuellaw178 »

Good to hear it's working great and no longer a mission impossible! :D

Fun nerdy fact: Ever wonder why LM came up with the magical but seemingly random 41mm diameter (with their original basket at least)?

The puck in a 58mm basket that we all loved is cylinder-shaped and in school we learn that the volume of a cylinder is h*πr^2 (h=height,r=radius or half diameter). And the surface area of a 58mm circle is πr^2, so 3.142*(58/2)^2 = 2642 mm2. How about 41mm? It's 3.142*(41/2)^2 = 1320 mm2.

Notice the familarity there? 1320 is exactly half of 2642 (well almost) and it's not a coincidence at all. This means that 7g in 41mm basket and 14g in 58mm basket will have exactly the same puck thickness/height, and that 41mm is exactly half the 58mm basket, cylinderically speaking. Clearly some engineers at LM has given this some thoughts, and it is why I think it worked so much better compared to other baskets. Who knew high school math is actually useful in real life years later :lol:

Not sure if I am the only one thrilled by this 'discovery' but here you go and feel free roll your eyes :lol:

p/S: upon rereading the thread Johan mentioned this earlier in the thread too.

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#58: Post by Auctor »

Here's a Q - assuming that the puck height is the same, are the number of holes in the basket proportionally less in the single vs the double? And what proportion? This leads to shot times - are they the same in both single and double?

I've read countless threads here on the single basket, and this one by far has been the best. Almost makes me want to reinvest in a single shot workflow. *almost* :P

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#59: Post by samuellaw178 »

In theory they should (ie. the 41mm should have exactly half the number of perforated holes), but that is true only if the entire bottom is perforated to the very edge. In practice, because the holes are only stamped/punched in the center and there is a blind ring band around the circumferences, the proportion of the blind ring band is bigger on the single basket. So it's not quite, but close enough to proportionally halved.

Did a quick count using cellphone photo and ImageJ analysis (it's not perfect but gives a quick count haha - the red spots are the holes counted by the software):

Shot time should be the same for both singles and doubles.
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#60: Post by Peppersass »

You'll find that a small dose adjustment is necessary for most double-to-single conversions. With most baskets I find that the single dose is slightly greater than one-half the double dose.

Years ago, another_jim (Jim Schulman) posted a simple way to do this: make the ratio of the doses the same as the ratio of the hole areas. For example, if the single basket hole area is 55% of the double basket hole area, use 55% of the double dose for your single.

This assumes that the basket hole sizes and precision are the same, and the basket heights are "standard". It works best with baskets from the same manufacturer.

Another way to approach this without measuring is cut the dose in half and adjust the dose until the flow rates for the single and double are the same.