BaristaBob wrote:Okay, so I can agree that in a blind taste test the different may not be discernible but darn it years ago when I started using VST baskets and John Buckman's Decent Espresso tamper with that 58.5mm head (with those innovative side ridges) to keep from pulling a vacuum when removing the tamper...the beauty of those "clean" basket sides...devoid of precious grounds, it made sense to me, that was the ticket!

Would that be the barista hustle tamper? (Not decent)

Jeff wrote:I'm somewhat skeptical that a 200-250 micron difference in edge gap can make a big difference when the nominal particle size is somewhere around there as well.

Just to throw a wrench into the machine, there is some belief and supporting evidence that the dreaded "donut extraction" may be a good thing if not excessive. It is theorized that the boundary conditions in the basket tend to disfavor extraction from the grinds against walls of the basket.

I've always thought that donut shots seem to counter the boundary effect. If flow at the walls is 0 and flow at the center is the most you would expect the shot to more consistently fill in the center before the edges but in my experience it's the opposite. flow in the basket is probably not laminar but more turbulent, plus with the pressure all those conditions may change.

I've wanted to play with a convex tamper to see if that could flip those results but I know I'm probably 10 years late to that conversation and most have moved on. With pour-over I've noticed when using a filter you can watch the bypass happen as coffee seems to be drawn to the sides (you can literally watch bubbles being pulled to the sides) but in a bypass free brewer the opposite happens and flow seems to be drawn away from the sides (and a lot slower) which is consistent with the boundary effect.

DamianWarS wrote:Would that be the barista hustle tamper? (Not decent)
image

Nope...the Decent v1.


Plus I found this statement on the Decent website.

The biggest game changer with a tamper for me has been getting a leveling tamper. I'd recommend everyone to get one. I've never had a suctioning problem but that might be because my tampers don't fit snuggly however I also hear tight-fitting tampers generally are harder to be not level because it only fits going straight down.

^^^ Totally agree... the leveling tamper has been a life saver for a person like me that couldn't produce a level tamp using a traditional tamper to save my life.

The difference is going to be subtle at best, I done this when I went from a 58mm RB to a 58,55 Torr tamper in the past, there where not much noticeable difference, I just never seen a significant difference that cannot be explained by natural variance in all the other aspects going into the brew. I seen some doing measurements but the difference was just so scientifically insignificant that we cannot really draw any conclusions from it.

It's really not what is going to be the difference between success and failure, but prepping and level tamp is imho far more important than the difference between a 58 vs 58,5mm tamper. Yeah sure I own a 58,5mm levelling tamper that is my daily driver, but I would not be worried I was missing out if I didn't, If I already owned a 58mm tamper that I liked I certainly would not rush out to get a 58,4-6mm.

Personally I rather have a levelling tamper then a 58,5mm tamper, it just make things easier, less thing to worry/concentrate about. Not that I cannot tamp straight it's just more relaxing with this sort of device.

malling wrote:Personally I rather have a levelling tamper then a 58,5mm tamper, it just make things easier, less thing to worry/concentrate about. Not that I cannot tamp straight it's just more relaxing with this sort of device.

I agree. I don't have one of those thick 58.5mm tampers but I'm told the tight fit makes it easier for a level tamp since there's less space for the tamper to move around. Of course, that makes sense, but it begs the question if we're getting really tight-fitting tampers so the tamp is more level then why not just get a leveling tamper? I have one of those macaroon leveling tampers, you'd confuse it for an OCD except it's flat and it's for tamping not pseudo distribution. The construction is really simple and I got it because it was cheap, turns out it works really well and it's actually 58.25mm.

DamianWarS wrote:The biggest game changer with a tamper for me has been getting a leveling tamper.

For me it was a tamper press. Now I wonder why people still use those ancient simple tampers

BTW: My video with 55mm tamper in 58mm basket:

Henry_k wrote:For me it was a tamper press. Now I wonder why people still use those ancient simple tampers

BTW: My video with 55mm tamper in 58mm basket:
video

what tamper press do you use? is there is a particular reason why you're using a 55mm tamper in a 58mm basket or is it just the size of the tamper press?

Henry_k wrote:Now I wonder why people still use those ancient simple tampers

As simple as possible and no simpler