What pressure sensors are you using to gather digital gas pressure data? - Page 2

#11: Post by **Marcelnl** » January 6th, 2022, 3:54 am

following this! I'm also on the lookout for a digital gas pressure sensor....eerrr affordable digital gas pressure sensor. At the moment I am not totally clear how the Honywell would be connected to Artisan but that should be doable with one of the may phidgets.

January 6th, 2022, 10:30 am

@Marcelnl - according to the datasheet output is a voltage proportional to the supply voltage. There's a diagram on the lower righthand side of page two that gives the formula and an analog voltage input on a phidget should work with this.

I also saw the note about using the honeywell sensor to adjust burners, but wasn't sure if they meant monitoring the airflow of the mixture (as opposed to the fuel). If the sensor is compatible, maybe a 3d-printed case could hold the electronics and something to adapt the input to a more readily connected fitting. Like a silicone tubing piece connected to a barb-to-NPT fitting...

#13: Post by **okmed** » January 6th, 2022, 10:40 am

[quote="jpbbden

I also saw the note about using the honeywell sensor to adjust burners, but wasn't sure if they meant monitoring the airflow of the mixture (as opposed to the fuel). If the sensor is compatible, maybe a 3d-printed case could hold the electronics and something to adapt the input to a more readily connected fitting. Like a silicone tubing piece connected to a barb-to-NPT fitting...[/quote]

You are correct, and that is why they won't authorize its use for directly sensing gas pressure.

#14: Post by **ira** » January 6th, 2022, 1:21 pm

I'm willing to do all kinds of what the world would consider stupid things that I consider perfectly safe. There is no way Honeywell will say a plastic sensor is OK for a dangerous gas, their lawyers won't allow it. but put a really tiny orifice between the supply and the sensor so if it leaks you'll notice the low pressure readings and it's not a safety issue. Put the mess in a reasonable cage so even if it catches fire it can't reach anything flammable and gas can't pool and explode. And if you're really worried, aim a small fan at it to disperse the gas so it can't concentrate enough to burn.

I know there's a bunch of people who will say, no no, it's too dangerous, what if something goes wrong, but if you're asking the question, you should understand enough to make it safe. It's not like 1 PSI or whatever gas pressure runs at is high enough to explode one of those sensors.

And if you do this you should realize you've abandoned all hope, but well, sometimes that seems necessary.

Ira

January 6th, 2022, 4:58 pm

@ira, with you on that 100%.

At the gas pressures and flow rates we're dealing with these seem like reasonable, manageable risks.

-J

#16: Post by **aabud** » January 6th, 2022, 9:33 pm

I ordered a ABP2DRNT006KG2A3XX ( ) to experiment with. ~$30 shipped. Range is 0-6Kpa

https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/187/ ... 991028.pdf

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/78 ... NT006KG2A3

My setup uses Arduinos for sensors, which are all on a modbus line that feeds Artisan, so will just wire the sensor to the Arduino, and hang that Arduino onto the existing modbus line. Interesting that this datasheet actually has sample Arduino code back in the applications section... not sure I've seen that before.

I'm Propane, not Natural Gas, which I think is slightly more challenging, in that it's considered a "wet gas", whereas the Natural Gas in your home is a "dry gas". At least from what I understood from a little bit of research. For "wet" applications I gather the sensor has to have a bit more internal coating/protections.

#17: Post by **Firemission** » January 6th, 2022, 10:27 pm

I've been researching a solution myself after getting a Huky just a week ago.

I recently bought this which I've come across: https://atlas-scientific.com/product/a- ... re-sensor/ which "seems" to be safe to use looking at the documentation (please feel free to tell me otherwise). There are two models that have different ranges: 0-10PSI and a 0-100 PSI. The best part is that it uses Analog voltage and has a <1ms response time with a resolution .0025 PSI / 0.017 kPa(which I think is good enough). It should work with the Phidgets I believe.

I have no idea about noise or how those specs will actually match up in the real world.

Wika thought their A-10 series would work and the price is a (relatively) more palatable $150-$200 USD. At my pressures the accuracy isn't high enough, but it might make a good option for someone operating a higher gas pressures.

I am "pretty" sure that these are Wika, as the specs seem to match, but I can't 100% confirm.

At 160ish bucks, it was a bit of a pill to swallow. There aren't too many really cheap options at the needed specs or certs for that matter.

I was thinking of using a Propane Flashback Arrestor to be safe, and I know that the outward pressure of the propane means that it shouldn't be necessary to install one as it shouldn't be able to flashback anyway but it can't hurt to install one regardless?

I'm not really too worried, but I guess it's best to do your due diligence.
I've also thought about using their flow sensor, but I chickened out of that one.

#18: Post by **aabud** » January 7th, 2022, 11:13 am

Firemission wrote:I've been researching a solution myself after getting a Huky just a week ago.

I recently bought this which I've come across: https://atlas-scientific.com/product/a- ... re-sensor/ which "seems" to be safe to use looking at the documentation (please feel free to tell me otherwise). There are two models that have different ranges: 0-10PSI and a 0-100 PSI. The best part is that it uses Analog voltage and has a <1ms response time with a resolution .0025 PSI / 0.017 kPa(which I think is good enough). It should work with the Phidgets I believe.

I have no idea about noise or how those specs will actually match up in the real world.

I am "pretty" sure that these are Wika, as the specs seem to match, but I can't 100% confirm.

At 160ish bucks, it was a bit of a pill to swallow. There aren't too many really cheap options at the needed specs or certs for that matter.

I was thinking of using a Propane Flashback Arrestor to be safe, and I know that the outward pressure of the propane means that it shouldn't be necessary to install one as it shouldn't be able to flashback anyway but it can't hurt to install one regardless?

I'm not really too worried, but I guess it's best to do your due diligence.
I've also thought about using their flow sensor, but I chickened out of that one.

Resolution would work for me on this one and I like the form factor, but I wonder about the accuracy ( 0.689 kPa, from the link you included ). I tend to make adjustments in as fine as 0.25 kPa. The thing about accuracy, though, is I'm not sure how it translates to actual use... I think that means that if you give the sensor something you know is 3 kPa, it might read anywhere between 2.3 and 3.7 Kpa (rounding a bit here). But does the sensor report the same answer back every time you apply that 3Kpa, or does it vary in that range to a different spot? If it falls randomly to a different spot in that range every time, that would seem to be unusable.

#19: Post by **aabud** » January 7th, 2022, 1:17 pm

Something else to keep in mind, based on my experience with using one of these types of small digital sensors for recording drum air flow - they may produce a very noisy reading that will have to be averaged over 10-20 readings to get an accurate, stable value. In my experiments with a few things 6 months or so ago, if I only read the sensor once per second... I would have to wait 10-20 seconds to see the results of an air adjustment... so I ended up concluding that I needed to read the sensor 10-20 times a second to get a stable enough value in a timely matter that would support my changing of the flow. I've gotten the change mostly done to be able to test that idea out, but haven't finished it yet, so still just an idea for a solution...

#20: Post by **ira** » January 7th, 2022, 1:53 pm

As a lot of the Honeywell sensors are differential and the have ones with very low pressure ranges, it's probably possible to use an orifice and a differential sensor to make something that indicates flow instead of pressure. Not sure that it would have a useful curve, but someone here probably knows the answer to that question.

Anyway, just a thought that crossed my mind after reading the last post.

Ira