US Roaster, Artisan Start Up - Page 4

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
Alaroast
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#31: Post by Alaroast »

I took some measurements and had to convert to metric :cry: but probe is approx. 6.27 mm diameter and about 3 cm from drum wall at about the 7:30 position and extends into drum about 6.25 cm.

Alaroast
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#32: Post by Alaroast »

Almico wrote:I would pull that BT probe and look at it. If it's a 5-6mm stubby probe it will not help much for roasting. I'm not familiar with USRC roaster design, but it is possible it is hooked into the safety system of the roaster, and rerouting it from its intended purpose to Artisan might not be a good idea. You could replace it with a dual probe to feed the existing PID as well as Artisan, but only if the probe is in the perfect location for getting good data from a variety of roast batch sizes.
Almico, I'm revisiting the Phidgets suggestion earlier in this post and the Phidgets setup using RTD's, hub, modules and misc hardware comes to about $194. You had mentioned that a 5-6 mm stubby probe is not that good for roasting. The Phidgets RTD probe is 3.2 mm so I'm guessing the smaller diameter probes provide faster response time?
Also you mentioned that I could possibly replace my original thermocouple with a dual probe so one leg could feed the existing PID as well as Artisan. any suggestions for sourcing the duel probe RTD that works well with Phidgets?

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Almico
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#33: Post by Almico »

Alaroast wrote:Also you mentioned that I could possibly replace my original thermocouple with a dual probe so one leg could feed the existing PID as well as Artisan. any suggestions for sourcing the duel probe RTD that works well with Phidgets?
I would only pursue the dual probe if the stock probe is in the perfect position. It most likely is not. On my roaster I just left the OEM probes and drilled a new hole for the RTD bean probe.

I don't not know where to get a dual probe. Not likely cheap with a dual RTD. I wouldn't bother.

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hankua
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#34: Post by hankua »

Totally agree with Alan's advice, drilling a tapping a hole is not that big a deal; maybe the cleanup afterwards? And if the first attempt doesn't work out you can block it out with a set screw and re-drill. There is a low cost solution to a datalogging interface, the Mastech 6514 or a Perfect Prime clone can handle two thermocouples you can source from various places. That kit could be done for less than $100. I had trouble tapping stainless with a cheap tap, the HS tap did the job.

If your tapping the faceplate, a decision of metric or US inch would have to be considered. The thin RTD probes preferred are from Phidget and come with US inch compression fittings. Ebay, Amazon, Mill City probes usually have metric 8mm mounting threads. Amazon has "naked" thermocouples in both 2mm and 3mm, 50mm and 100mm length that can be adapted/hacked for various solutions. US inch threads is route I would go in your situation, it would future proof the datalogging hardware for Phidget RTD; assuming you started with the less expensive meter. Also would leave all the wiring along on the machine, including the pid settings. Another members was having some issues with their USRC and ended up using the troubleshooting program they have with an hourly charge.

Alaroast
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#35: Post by Alaroast »

My current bean probe is in the stock location which seems to be a good location. They used one of the holes for the sight glass as the through hole into the drum. I'm not opposed to leaving things as they are and drilling/tapping a new hole; just trying to keep things uncluttered and clean.

Hankua, that other member you were referring to that had to contact USRC for the hourly troubleshooting was me :D . The person I bought the roaster from was selling it on behalf of a deceased family member and knew nothing about it. He had trouble lighting the burner and had been pushing lots of buttons trying to get it to work when I showed up to buy it and had the PID all out of whack. I got a steal of a deal on the "non-working" roaster, got it home and USRC had it up and running over the phone in about 20 minutes. That's after I spent several days banging my head against the wall trying to figure out why pilot would light but not the burner. That whole process helped me learn a lot about this roaster that I likely never would have jumped into.
When I do update the probes and meters, I'll likely go with Phidgets rather than the lower cost solution you mentioned but thanks for the info.

Alaroast
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#36: Post by Alaroast »

So I have the Phidgets RTD's in hand but could not find the correct drill or tap locally so had to order that too. So while I'm waiting, I've been probably overthinking where to drill for the new BT location. My current BT thermocouple uses the bottom hole in the sight glass ring as the pass through and I'm leaving that in place. I'll either drill a hole about an inch below that location or also considering mounting in the dump door. In either location, I'll have to slightly bend the probe to clear the drum vanes. Should I insert the probe as far as will go into drum (about 2 inches) or should it be a short and stubby? Also thoughts on probe in dump door vs. through face plate below existing thermocouple location?

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CarefreeBuzzBuzz
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#37: Post by CarefreeBuzzBuzz »

I think Rao's recent book has a note on location on page 10-11. Check that out.

On insertion the following comes in an email to me from EVO Sensors
The 2 inch minimum on a RTD is a misunderstood and in some ways outdated guideline.

In early years the RTD temperature sensing elements had small diameter platinum wire wound around a ceramic core and to achieve 100 ohms resistance in the circuit the length of the RTD element could be 1 more than 1 inch long. The placement of the element in the closed end tube or in a MI Cable construction could add another 1/2" as such the 2 inches. In fact today despite technology improvements with wire wound RTD sensing elements a common length is 25 mm (1 inch) plus the lead wires length

The wire wound RTD element have mostly been replaced throughout much of industry with a thin film RTD temperature element, were the platinum is melted and deposited on ceramic wafer in sophisticated semiconductor type processing equipment and the most common length is approx. 2 mm (.078" or slightly more than 1/16 of an inch) as such the RTD temperature probes can provide accurate temperature measurements with insertion depths of less than 1/4".

The other reason of a 2 inch immersion being referenced is many temperature calibration equipment manufacturers indicate their highest accuracy is achieved when a temperature sensor is inserted at least 2 inches in their heated or cooled fluid, sand or metal block.On insertion depth, I would not bend them yet. This comes from EVO Sensors in an email to me.
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phro94
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#38: Post by phro94 »

Hello, I'm trying to connect my Delta DTB4848 wired to a probatone 5kg to Artisan version 2.4.4. The Delta DTB4848 has a usb ready to be plugged into my computer. I'm not entirely sure how to configure the devices on the Artisan program. Can anyone help?

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CarefreeBuzzBuzz
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#39: Post by CarefreeBuzzBuzz replying to phro94 »

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