Some lessons after using a fluid bed roaster for two weeks - Page 5

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
Milligan

#41: Post by Milligan »

ira wrote:So further playing with that profile got me here, almost completely smooth. Here is the roast and the profile settings I used. For 100 gram roasts on the Pro 100.
Do you have a pic that shows the full graph with time stamps along the bottom with RoR as well? I've had a hard time with longer time profiles on the Ikawa.

ira
Team HB

#42: Post by ira »

I increased preheat to 400 and added a point between the first 2 points to try and tame the bouncing you can see a few posts up. The 525 is what the machine seems to think it takes to get to a 400 drop temperature. It actually got higher and then came down as the temperature approached 400. I think I'll extend the time for P1 a second at a time to see if I can smooth it even more. The last change was changing the time on P1 from 19 to 25 seconds. I think 26 or 27 might make it even smoother. I've no idea if this might help designing profiles for the home, but hopefully it will.

GDM528

#43: Post by GDM528 »

ira wrote: I've no idea if this might help designing profiles for the home, but hopefully it will.
When you think you've got it dialed in I can port to the Home. The motivation for doing this has me wondering: How important is it to duplicate the Pro's pre-heat/bean-load process? Are there some essential flavor notes that can only happen by briefly exposing the room-temperature greens to really high heat before the drying/carmelization/development phases? I imagine the answer might be a subjective 'yes' - but might be beyond my ability to detect once I take it through the minefield of pulling an espresso shot.

Perhaps a simpler method to align Home and Pro recipes might be to meet at start of the caramelization phase: 160C/320F, and not sweat how we got there. I can get to caramelization in as little as one minute - are there any Pro recipes faster than that?

ira
Team HB

#44: Post by ira »

This is the third recipe I tried and the only one so far I want to drink. I've another 20 pounds of this coffee so at some point I'll try changing more of the profile to see if I can improve it. I guess my question is, does getting there faster help or hurt as I'm sure I could get there faster?

GDM528

#45: Post by GDM528 »

ira wrote:, does getting there faster help or hurt as I'm sure I could get there faster?
I've read scattered musings about the caramelization phase of the roast, that assert that any water that's still in the bean will enhance the chemistry during that phase: more water = more flavor. My own experiments have been a mixed bag of pleasure and pain, but do seem to imply there is an effect.

20lbs can fuel a lot of experiments ;)

ira
Team HB

#46: Post by ira »

So I've got it to where I'm happy with the start of the curve. Maybe it could be smoothed a bit more but I doubt it would matter. I find it interesting how it's necessary to trick the profile into doing something that looks nothing like the wanted result.



GDM528

#47: Post by GDM528 »

ira wrote:So I've got it to where I'm happy with the start of the curve. Maybe it could be smoothed a bit more but I doubt it would matter. I find it interesting how it's necessary to trick the profile into doing something that looks nothing like the wanted result.
Thanks for doing this! So the trick seems to be in matching the elevated pre-heat temperature. Possibly very load dependent - 80g?

You've made it pretty easy to match your profile with the Home machine: start the machine unloaded at 510F/265C-ish for about a minute / load greens / ramp down temperature to about 300F/150C in one minute / resume 'normal' roasting curve.

I'm conflicted on why I should do this however. The initial impulse of heat is a significant boost in total heat input for a light roast, but maybe not so much for a dark roast. Furthermore, I think I could get a reasonably equivalent effect by making a relatively small adjustment across the entire curve.

Are there any Pro curves that start with the ET at a low temperature, 120F/50C?

ira
Team HB

#48: Post by ira »

I tried a number of other profiles and this is the one I find to the best so far. Smoothing the start was mostly a bit of entertainment to see what was possible. It's not clear that it made much difference as it's so early in the roast.

AJbarista
Supporter ♡

#49: Post by AJbarista »

I thought RoR is the rate of rise of bean temperature itself. Can someone define in formula the RoR.

Anyways, going back to the point, I also heard from Scott Rao that focus on the RoR not the % of time spent in different phases. I read Rob's book as well. So, for the Santoker or Ikawa, did you did you come across any idea ratio of times spent for different phases?

I currently use Hottop with Artisan. Tired Gene, and Behmor. Tried Fresh roast but hate it for lack of automation. Don't like Behmor as well. I totally agree with automation. Once you dial in roast, we should be able to replicate it.

I am intrigued by the fluid bed roaster because I roast light (right after FC end), and with hottop I have to go in the garage would be nice to roast in the kitchen without paying Ikawa price. Also, does Ikawa trigger smoke alarm?

AJbarista
Supporter ♡

#50: Post by AJbarista »

@Milllgan
"Total roast times are typically in the 6 min range for washed and around 7 for natural. Looking through my roast notes, those are the rough numbers on best cupped. Most that I've done so far that extend into a 8-9 min range seemed to take on baked profiles."

Interesting that you found the washed vs natural beans having different roast times total vs at different phases. Do you know why?

Also, what is baked beans?