My Mill City 1K was replaced by a 15Kg Loring by the previous owner. Over the years he has missed the 1K and said a few times he would like to go back to a drum. He does light roasts and competes. The second Loring I witnessed roasting was a big 60K+ model and it was so loud there is no way to hear first crack. I wasn't impressed.

I am aware that the drum is fixed on Lorings. But it must be heated by very hot air. And what really is the difference between very hot air and a distance above a flame with airflow? Hard to say really without data of what a Loring drum temperatures are at. I suspect cooler than my drum, but maybe not. Maybe it has a dynamically changing temperature? Since it isn't spinning, it could have more temperature variation from top to bottom. Donno.

I think Lorings are high quality machines with a lot of engineering put into them. They do make good coffee and save on fuel bills. But I think there are claims with no data to back them up. I do not believe they are 100% convection roasters and do believe most everyone has no idea how much heating is by convection. Except for Loring and they do not tell you. Why?

Anyone else pick up on the part where Rob Hoos said "if your looking for florals in your light roast shorten development, if your looking for maximum sweetness lengthen development." And that "Most competition roasts have a 1:30 development. (I'm paraphrasing).

I was unaware of this. I have his book Modulating the flavour profile of coffee but can't recall this being in there. Gonna have to re-read it now.

Yeah, I noticed him say that, although on the subject of enhancing floral notes, I'm pretty sure he was talking about total roast time, not development. Seems he's using "floral" as a proxy for "bright" and sweet as a proxy for "mellow." It's certainly true that a bean roasted hot and fast vs. the same bean roasted long and slow will be much sharper, more acid, and yes, more floral. I've also read Rob's book, and I would love to know what parts of it he'd like to take back now if given the chance. Personally, I don't totally buy into his book's premise on Maillard, i.e., that long Maillard phases increase complexity. Given Rob's comment in the video about roasting fast - a method that necessarily entails quicker Maillard phases - to enhance for florals, a note usually associated with complex brews, I'm not sure he agrees with it anymore, either.

Interesting, I took it as if for equivalent light roast profile drop at something like 1:15 development for florals, 1:30-1:45 DT for sweetness. Maybe slightly hotter for the 1:15 DT to get to about the same drop temp but not drastically differing profile. Then again maybe this would be considered drastically different for others.

Vince_in_Montreal wrote: Interesting, I took it as if for equivalent light roast profile drop at something like 1:15 development for florals, 1:30-1:45 DT for sweetness. Maybe slightly hotter for the 1:15 DT to get to about the same drop temp but not drastically differing profile. Then again maybe this would be considered drastically different for others.

Just went back and found the quote. It occurs at 42:20. The line is, "...generally speaking if you want a more savory coffee, you're probably looking at a longer roast. If you want a more floral coffee, you're probably looking at a shorter roasting style." To me, that advice doesn't comport with the book's claim that extended Maillard phases generate complexity. Florals are one of the most prized complex notes in the specialty world, and here he advises short roasts to achieve them. Short roasts pretty much demand short Maillard phases.

By the way, none of this is a knock on Rob, who is fantastic, generous, and infinitely knowledgeable. It just makes me wonder whether his thinking on the subject has evolved. Scott Rao is pretty open about no longer thinking DTR matters much, despite framing it as one of the three roasting commandments in Coffee Roaster's Companion. I wonder whether Rob would similarly reverse certain claims he made in his book.

No ones knocking anyone for sure. Im trying to improve my skills always. I had a roast session 2 days ago where I tried to replicate exactly as I surmised he meant. Personally I would sacrifice most florals for sweetness any day. So if it's a scale I would get it 75% - 90% of the way to max sweetness.

I decided to drop at 385f which is normally 10-15f off first crack for these light roasts but one never got there though I achieved my 1:30 DT. This one I tried after 30 hours rest and I love it. Very sweet indeed. I will try the other today.

I'm thinking i will roast the next time with gas settings somewhere in between these 2. One was hotter than I intended.

Good looking roasts! Excited to hear how they compare. I would expect the shorter to be noticeably more acidic.

The longer roast was great, very sweet very pleasant, hint of florals. Far superior to the same coffee dropped at 390-400f @ 1:30-2:00 minutes development. My wife who hates floral tasting coffee loved it.

The shorter faster roast had an extra days rest before I tried it but man o man is that thing floral and fruity with just the right acidity. Just as sweet I found, maybe a little sweeter but is difficult to say with certainty because of the intense fruit/florals. Glad I still have 20# of this coffee lol.

I didn't cup these I just brewed them with a aeropress. Inverted method with a 2 minute emersion.

It has been a long time since I read Rob's book, but my recollection was that he was saying that lots of things in roasting are tradeoffs. When he wrote about "complexity", I read that as meaning "added aromas from the roast, perhaps from maillard reaction products, but probably from other browning and other reactions as well". I didn't read it as saying "better".

Eg. if you take your flawlessly clean, bergamot, apricot, lime zest and jasmine washed Panama Esmeralda geisha and you mute all of those aromas a little and add some char, roast beef and smoke through the roasting process, you have most certainly made the cup more "complex", in the sense that you have added more aromas.

Agreed. My first home-roast was on a perforated pizza pan in my oven on the convection setting. An unknown Ethiopia green coffee from a local market serving a Ethiopian community. It was really uneven but had a lot of complexity. I was hooked from then on roasting.