Roasting dark: 'S' curve vs constant declining RoR? - Page 5

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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LBIespresso
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#41: Post by LBIespresso »

mkane wrote:I like Alans roasting plan. Keep it simple, 2 profiles. I find the unit we have needs the dials twisted close to the same way each roast otherwise R0R is inconsistent.
I am in this camp too. More because I am newer to roasting and want to get good enough at one approach before I complicate things. But the straightforward and achievable guidelines of the Rao curve combined with Alan's approach of letting the coffee give you what it wants (sorry for paraphrasing...I hope I got it right) for me has been an enjoyable and rewarding process.

While I don't roast darker for myself, I do for others. Up to now I have just tried to get it dark enough without a stall. So I do hope to learn something here. As always, I appreciate all of you with much more experience than I for taking the time to discuss and share.
LMWDP #580

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mkane
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#42: Post by mkane »

Dark roasts are easy. When your desired roast profile goes astray, turn up the gas and let it rip. Most dark roast aficionados won't know any different with the milk and sugar added.

Capuchin Monk

#43: Post by Capuchin Monk »

mkane wrote:won't know any different with the milk and sugar added.
When those two are added, wouldn't that cause the same effect on all roasts? :idea:

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EddyQ

#44: Post by EddyQ »

Talking declining, flattening or increasing RoR is pointless without also talking what the RoR is going into first crack. If you went into first crack at 20F/min instead of 15F/min, the same RoR slope would result in wildly different flavors in the cup.
Almico wrote:This exercise is an illustration of how all the phases of a roast work together. Yes, the yellow phase is important as it sets up the whole roast.
Alan's attention to phases make much more sense with relation to the flavors in the cup. If you want a dark 30deg F delta rise from first crack in 3 minutes, your RoR is defined and if your development profile is compliant with that, then your flavors will be pretty solid in my experience.
LMWDP #671

Milligan

#45: Post by Milligan »

EddyQ wrote:Talking declining, flattening or increasing RoR is pointless without also talking what the RoR is going into first crack. If you went into first crack at 20F/min instead of 15F/min, the same RoR slope would result in wildly different flavors in the cup.
I'd like to think discussing declining, flattening, or increasing as being more related to roast defects whereas discussing the actual rate is more along the lines of a profiling exercise in achieving a predetermined roast level and flavor direction of that particular offering.

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LBIespresso
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#46: Post by LBIespresso »

EddyQ wrote:Talking declining, flattening or increasing RoR is pointless without also talking what the RoR is going into first crack. If you went into first crack at 20F/min instead of 15F/min, the same RoR slope would result in wildly different flavors in the cup.



Alan's attention to phases make much more sense with relation to the flavors in the cup. If you want a dark 30deg F delta rise from first crack in 3 minutes, your RoR is defined and if your development profile is compliant with that, then your flavors will be pretty solid in my experience.
Yes. I totally agree. In fact, when I try to go darker, typically I will try to go into FC closer to 20F ROR and when I roast lighter I shoot for closer to 10.
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GDM528

#47: Post by GDM528 »

EddyQ wrote:If you want a dark 30deg F delta rise from first crack in 3 minutes, your RoR is defined and if your development profile is compliant with that, then your flavors will be pretty solid in my experience.
"3 minutes"... Is that intentional, or that's simply how long it takes to get to a 30F rise? I ask because I've been doing it in a bit under 2 minutes and wondering if that's too short.

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mkane
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#48: Post by mkane »


Should have let it run longer but I chickened out. First time my charge temp has ever been that high.

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drgary
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#49: Post by drgary »

I think Alan is saying that to get a steadily declining ROR to 2C, you need to extend drying time. Going 10 sec into 2C will give you a Full City+ roast. If it tastes bitter, try brewing it cooler, a practice that precedes Alan Adler's guideline to brew at 175ˆF. My Conti Prestina vintage lever's manometer shows a separate sweet spot for a darker roast.

I haven't gone silent here but hope to find the time within the next week or so to try and compare the steadily declining ROR to 2C versus a rising BT ROR in the latter part of the roast.

I don't agree on this. Roasting darker is its own style and choice. I say that as someone who often likes to roast much lighter. But I like darker roasts as one choice that needs no sugar, including when served as iced coffee. Someone can choose to add milk or sugar but with a good roast, properly brewed, that would be a choice, not a way to mask unpleasant tastes.
mkane wrote:Dark roasts are easy. When your desired roast profile goes astray, turn up the gas and let it rip. Most dark roast aficionados won't know any different with the milk and sugar added.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

Trjelenc (original poster)

#50: Post by Trjelenc (original poster) »

I'd agree that what I want to get out of darker roasting is stuff that I sometimes see as descriptors in darker coffees like chocolate, caramel, maybe some dried fruits like raisin or date, reduced but still present acidity, not as bright, but definitely no ashy charcoal flavors and minimizing bitterness as much as possible.

Obviously some of these flavors are dependent on the coffee, but I'd like to have the flexibility in my roasting to coax some of these at a darker level too.

I think a big part of it for me is also the challenge. People like to dismiss darker roasting as simply burning the beans, but I think it can be done well and doing so is more difficult than roasting light. Roasting a declining RoR profile and dropping some time during or immediately following first crack and having it come out very drinkable is fairly straight-forward, with more tweaking to try to make it better. Roasting dark is a fine line between thin and bitter trash, no acidity and overly indulgent, or other off flavors. I'm looking to expand my roasting toolbox so that the point past first crack and approaching second isn't this unfamiliar territory that I should consider off-limits