Roast and Learn Together - May 2015 - Page 3

#21: Post by **jalpert** » May 3rd, 2015, 4:51 pm

Tasting notes for my two roasts, from a blind cupping this morning, as Jim recommended I do (8 days post roast):

Shorter roast:

Wet aroma - caramel, straightforward
Hot cup - light, hint of roastiness, presence of acidity, good caramel flavor, little to no spice or savory flavor
Cooling cup - more pronounced acidity leading to slight grassiness, same caramel flavor, still no spice or savory
Conclusion: this roast seemed to showcase acidity (almost to a fault, but not quite), and caramel

Longer roast:

Wet aroma - caramel, strong cinnamon/spice smell
Hot cup - light to medium, roastiness, almost no acidity, deeper caramel than shorter roast, but not much else going on
Cooling cup - hit of acidity, caramel flavor and significantly boosted spice/savory flavor. Very pronounced flavor. Interesting that this roast did not perform until the cup cooled.
Conclusion: this roast turned out better - a little acidity and no grassiness, but great savory and spicy flavor (maillard flavors I suppose?). Both had a pronounced roasty flavor despite dropping only at city+. I think the slower roast could have been taken a bit deeper and still maintained the spicy note.

May 3rd, 2015, 9:11 pm

I'll have to buy more to stretch out a long roast on my gasser, it doesn't profile small batches easily, at least until I get more time on it controlling the various aspects. I was stingy with this first roast at only 500g and ended with a fast 9:36 roast. Although I have it all wired with Phidgets and plan to use Artisan with it, I've been slack on finishing up with the setup, so this was all sensory feedback only. I do have a digital BT probe readout built in to the system to begin with.

Charged at 330°F, no fan, turned at 1:31, hit 300°F at 3:58 with a good yellow tan at 4:00. Fan at it's lowest (it's powerful and built for a much larger drum) I arrived at a very gentle drawn out 1C very early but at it's most noticeable at 8:42 at 375°F. Dropped at 383°F

Very good bean expansion with ground and whole bean color appearing the same. My Quest would likely look quite different at a fast roast like this, with less fully developed bean centers relative to the bean surface. Sometimes that's good, but many times it's not and I think this might be one of them. Too early to say but I would imagine a coffee like this benefits from maximizing that maillard devlopment to the highest degree possible without roast taints or flattening the cup.

I brewed it just now, mainly out of early curiosity to see what it entails. I get a meaty cup like a well caramelized steak. Lots of brown ale and grain notes, acidity is well preserved and it helps to elevate the cup. It cools far more interesting than it starts out, with gooey caramel- browny like chewy sweetness. I'd actually love to combine these flavors with a brown ale on a crisp autumn day. I imagine this would make a good espresso.

#23: Post by **ccr** » May 4th, 2015, 1:06 pm

TomC wrote:I imagine this would make a good espresso.

I don't think I've nailed this coffee quite yet, but my second roast of this turned out to be delicious as espresso.

I'm getting shots packed with slightly savory, rich chocolate, laced with an acidity that is mild, pleasant, and almost "spicy" in character. Interestingly, the ground coffee and shot both have a sweet and bright aroma that I find often in Kenyan coffees. I don't get the intensity of acidity that I expect with the aroma, but the quality of the acidity is there.

May 5th, 2015, 12:07 am

Brewing this same coffee tonight reveals a deepening of the wonderful caramel-y Tootsie Roll like flavors. Pretty delightful cup. Luckily I have plenty of it, so there'll be some left over in a few days to make its way thru the espresso machine. There's also some very faint, delicate herby notes like a hint of tarragon that add complexity to the savory notes. The beef broth notes are receding. This coffee rounds out better with a finer grind for filter brew.

I didn't indicate earlier, but this was a 13.7% weight loss roast. I'll re-up on another order if they still have some.

#25: Post by **Andy** » May 5th, 2015, 12:31 pm

caramel-y Tootsie Roll like flavors...The beef broth notes are receding.

My experience is similar -- creamy, light chocolate flavors, not particularly fruity, and the meatiness has decreased with a few days' rest. If anyone is looking for a forgiving coffee, I would say this is one. I even got a pretty good espresso from my rinky-dink equipment.

#26: Post by **another_jim** » May 5th, 2015, 6:14 pm

Cupping of the Slow start/fast finish (SSFF) and fast start slow finish (FSSF) roasts

            SSFF        FSSF
DRY         3.5         3
WET         3           3.5
ACID        8           7.5
BODY        8           7
FLAVOR      6.75        6.5
FINISH      7.75        7.5
TOTAL(+50)  87          85

In today's cupping, four days post roast, the two roasts were far more distinct than after the first day. The FSSF roast was only better in the wet aroma, where the simple caramel was more inviting than the brothy flavors in the SSFF roast. Otherwise, the FSSF roast cupped like a simple caramel dominated coffee with enough acidity to make it balanced, but not enough of anything else to make it interesting. The SSFF roast had a wine like acidity and a far more complex roast flavor. My original cupping roast was shorter than either of these and had more distinct flavors; but it didn;t taste as well integrated as the SSFF roast.

Both roasts got sweeter, more interesting and cleaner as they cooled; this bodes very well for espresso use. I'll report on that tomorrow.

I'm also wondering what the time trade off between finish and development may be. If you want to subtract a minute from the finish, do you add one minute to the development, or two? My guess is that there has to be a thermal constancy (.e. an equal area below the roast profile curve), so that less time at high temperatures has to be traded off with more time at lower temperatures.

May 5th, 2015, 8:07 pm

I had to cut myself off after 3 shots. I could have downed several more. Deep cola sweetness and a hint of cherry juice combined with a wonderful mouthfeel and lingering sweet, clean finish. This is a definite winner as an espresso. There's a great balance of savory sweet caramelized notes. No broth.

#28: Post by **Boldjava** » May 5th, 2015, 9:38 pm

5 lbs landed on my desk today. Really, really looking forward to a pulp natural Tanz.

#29: Post by **another_jim** » May 7th, 2015, 5:28 pm

Espresso shots today: coca cola, white wine and beef broth, with a dose of molasses in the slow finish roast. It's a bit like travelling to an alternate history earth, having the espresso there, and realizing that taste appreciation had developed in a slightly different direction -- the tastes are balanced, clean, and distinct; but don't make much sense by our usual standards.

It's a real interesting change of pace; but I'm not sure it would work as an everyday espresso.

#30: Post by **SAB** » May 12th, 2015, 11:44 am

Very interesting roast. Shots pulled today (prd 2) show acidity with almost no fruitiness. A very well- balanced acidity, but the balance is not with sweetness, but rather a very definite savory note. Most acidity seems to be associated with fruits in my tasting lexicon, so figuring out where this fits is off the beaten path...reminds me a bit of buttermilk, in the savory acidity, but very smooth and clean finish. I suspect as this rests a bit longer, the sweetness will amplify a bit.

I'm not sure where this roast fits in the fssf vs ssff spectrum, but looks to be a bit of both. My ET probe is a new addition to my hg/bm, so still trying to see where that info fits in.