Tried my first roast,

as espresso for the first time, today.

• Brewing parameters: 3 doubles, La Cimbali M21 Casa, 4sec pre-infusion, medium temp (a "4-Mississippi" HX flush past flash-boiling with an already temped group -- which would probably Scace at around 200F), 18g-18.5g in 32-34g out, 25 - 30sec; spouted pf;
• Flavor notes: Chocolate, hazel-nuts, clove, brown sugar/honey, muted apricot. There's a lot of Toblerone components in this coffee, but it missed Toblerone completely. I didn't make the association until I started writing this -- which almost certainly means it wasn't in the cup;
• Acids: Other than the very muted apricot - none. I found that disappointing;
• Sweetness: Yes, but not overwhelming. Brown sugar/honey.
• Body and Mouthfeel: Both excellent. Actually, better than expected with the switch from my usual crotchless to a spouted pf. But, let's face it, a lot of it is the grinder.

I'm convinced that there would have been more fruit and at least some acid in a better profiled roast. At first blush, the drying interval was too long, but everything else was fairly close. I'm going to try the target profile I proposed in my previous boast about brew, i.e., 6:15, 3:45, 4:00, but with a slightly higher Drop temp of 420F, with the expectation that it will work well as an "all purpose" roast.

Over-confidence much?

As yet, other than that it's "sweet," I have no particular impression of the coffee's inherent and terroir characteristics, which I attribute to crap roasting rather than the bean itself. WTF was I thinking? Mea cuppa, mea cuppa, mea maxima cuppa.

Rich

Here's a darker roast I did, which resulted in some very nice espressos after 4-5 days rest:



Preheated to 325F. 4.5 min. drying, 3.5 ramp, 2.5 development. Stopped at 413F, for a C+/FC finish.

My best shots have been slightly up-dosed, pulled at around .75 brew ratio with moderate, 200F-ish temps. As usual, shots were pulled on an MCAL and ground on an HG-one. Sweet apricot, cloves, cinnamon, and chocolate are the dominant flavor notes. Body is moderate, with a nice, lingering finish.

I'm still struggling to get a really pleasing brew roast with this; I'll report back if any of my experiments bear fruit. But for now, I'm quite happy to have found one use for this green that I really enjoy.

Hi Mark,

Our cups had a lot in common, but your Drop was lower than I'd have expected. Your readouts could be lower than mine, and I'd like to compare milestones. What do you have for 1st Crack start (aka "1stCs" in Artisan speak)?

Thanks,
Rich

[creative nickname] wrote:...Sweet apricot...

In retrospect, I would "see" that in there.

My BT probe is placed near the bottom of the bean mass in my HG/BM roaster, so it tends to run cool. First cracks started around 390F in this roast, which is fairly typical in my experience with this setup. They stopped around 404F.

So... not that different from my numbers. I'm a little surprised you didn't get more brightness from what I'm guessing is a C borderline C+ finish.

Gonna rethink my profile and Drop T for today's roast. Hmmm. Can you smell the grey hair burning?

Rich

Finally got around to roasting it today (Weekends are my main roasting time).

Roaster is Hottop B-2K. Temps are Hottop display temps (input manually).
Fan (blue) from 0-4 and heat (red) from 0-10.

I was going for FC without much finessing of the profile and it looks like that's what I got.
Charge: 252 gms (5 lbs divided into 9 roasts). Charge temp 275.
1C onset 11:05, 1C duration 1:43. Dropped at 406 degrees, 2:57 after 1C onset. Roast time 14:02
Final Beans mass 84.3%.

So, looks like I his my roast targets fairly well. Will see how it tastes in 2 days (though I might get impatient and make one cup before that.

I've never done a true "cupping" and won't be now. I'm still struggling to identify different flavor nuances so details may be scant. I'll do my best.

boar_d_laze wrote:So... not that different from my numbers. I'm a little surprised you didn't get more brightness from what I'm guessing is a C borderline C+ finish.

Gonna rethink my profile and Drop T for today's roast. Hmmm. Can you smell the grey hair burning?

Rich

Here's the main difference that I see. Looking closely at both of our graphs, you had about 4:00 minutes of development, as compared with my 2:30. You also had a substantially longer drying phase than I did. This may explain the difference between your "chocolate, hazelnut, clove ... muted apricot" shots, and my "sweet apricot, cloves, cinnamon, and chocolate" ones. Your longer, deeper development may have muted some of the fruit notes that I enjoyed in my shots; mine may be lighter in chocolates and other distillates than yours, which you might miss in mine. Both might be tasty, and there is enough in common to think that we are both exploring worthwhile aspects of what this coffee has to offer.

There is so much subjectivity in all this. It's been a long time since I took a roast all the way into second crack, so I may be overestimating how close I am to it. I've also taken to a slower, gentler approach to development of late, which makes it even more likely that I am overestimating how close I am to SCs. Ergo, what I called C+/FC (which I generally think of as 2:30-3:00 of development, with at least 1 full minute after FCend) might really be smack in the middle of C+ as most people see it. Also, I may tend to like a bit more acidity in my shots than you, so that my "sweet apricot" would strike you as too sour. Different equipment, different taste-buds, etc. It's hard to know for sure how comparable our results are unless we swap roasts and taste what the other person is producing. Which, now that I think of it, would be an interesting exercise to add to the R&L project...I'm definitely game if others are!

[creative nickname] wrote:Here's the main difference that I see. Looking closely at both of our graphs, you had about 4:00 minutes of development, as compared with my 2:30. You also had a substantially longer drying phase than I did. This may explain the difference between your "chocolate, hazelnut, clove ... muted apricot" shots, and my "sweet apricot, cloves, cinnamon, and chocolate" ones. Your longer, deeper development may have muted some of the fruit notes that I enjoyed in my shots; mine may be lighter in chocolates and other distillates than yours, which you might miss in mine. Both might be tasty, and there is enough in common to think that we are both exploring worthwhile aspects of what this coffee has to offer.

Unquestionably true. The surprise to me was how similar our tasting results were, not their differences. Based on my profile, I would have expected more fruit and less chocolate from yours.

There is so much subjectivity in all this. It's been a long time since I took a roast all the way into second crack, so I may be overestimating how close I am to it.

You are.

I've also taken to a slower, gentler approach to development of late, which makes it even more likely that I am overestimating how close I am to SCs. Ergo, what I called C+/FC (which I generally think of as 2:30-3:00 of development, with at least 1 full minute after FCend) might really be smack in the middle of C+ as most people see it.

Assuming consistent BTs and without a colorimeter, the easiest way to break down the C through C+ range is by T from 1stCe.

For the nothing it's worth to anyone but me, I break down the interval between 1stCe and 2dCs into 5 equal temperature ranges: C; C/C+; C+; C++; and C++/FC. Of those, I mostly work the first three for brew and the second three (yes, some overlap) for espresso. I used to use C+/FC as my all around, blend target, but am more likely to roast slightly lighter to "C++" these days.

I never write C++ or use the term in public. Because it's... y'know... stupid.

And just to round the whole city thing out to its exurban limits, I think of FC as 1st snaps of 2d (whether or not they're in the chamber or tray); and FC+ as onset of rolling 2d.

Also, I may tend to like a bit more acidity in my shots than you, so that my "sweet apricot" would strike you as too sour.

Probably to your first proposition, but unlikely as to your second.

Different equipment, different taste-buds, etc. It's hard to know for sure how comparable our results are unless we swap roasts and taste what the other person is producing.

Don't be so modest. Your descriptions make a lot of sense.

Which, now that I think of it, would be an interesting exercise to add to the R&L project...I'm definitely game if others are!

Great idea.

Rich

BarryR wrote:Finally got around to roasting it today (Weekends are my main roasting time).

Roaster is Hottop B-2K. Temps are Hottop display temps (input manually).
Fan (blue) from 0-4 and heat (red) from 0-10.
<image>

I was going for FC without much finessing of the profile and it looks like that's what I got.
Charge: 252 gms (5 lbs divided into 9 roasts). Charge temp 275.
1C onset 11:05, 1C duration 1:43. Dropped at 406 degrees, 2:57 after 1C onset. Roast time 14:02
Final Beans mass 84.3%.

So, looks like I his my roast targets fairly well. Will see how it tastes in 2 days (though I might get impatient and make one cup before that.

I've never done a true "cupping" and won't be now. I'm still struggling to identify different flavor nuances so details may be scant. I'll do my best.

As I mentioned, I'm not too good at the description thing. I thought it was a very well-balanced and somewhat sweet cup. Nothing too exciting but pleasant. Perhaps a hint of citrus in the aroma.
That's about all I got. I brewed it on a Brazen a couple times and siphon (Yama - 5) once.

I roasted it again this morning and went a little lighter, aiming for City+ to try and get it brighter with more of the varietal notes.

PS: I wasn't sure if I was supposed to add my tasting notes to my original post (in which case, no one would even know it was there) or do it this way. Any hints?