Roast and Learn Together - June 2015 - Page 9

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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johnny4lsu

#81: Post by johnny4lsu »

Mine developed some savory and unpleasant flavors as well. I've been so busy that I haven't been able to try these 4 different roasts as much as I'd like.

brianl

#82: Post by brianl »

brianmch wrote:My coffee arrived yesterday and I had to roast last night!

After reading through this and other threads I did the following:

Behmor 1600 (don't laugh, not a big kid yet)
drop 200grm @ 200 wall temp, Fast drum speed, propped up front.
Oscilated heat by 25% every minute until 1c (p5>p4>p5) to avoid overheating
1c started at 8 min. I was at P4 at that time and dropped heat to P3.
Cool at 10 min = 25% development (2 min) cool (door open, very windy)
Wall temp rose pretty evenly until 1C then fell 50 deg during 1c.

I'm not pumped with my normale shot this AM but I couldn't wait. I know a couple days rest is more reasonable.
Kinda flat, surprisingly little crema that went away quickly. May have been a little hot.
A little sweeness/light acidity/maybe some light lemon rind. A little bittersweet choco in the short finish. Thin body.

My takeaways are:
-That dropping temp to P3 during the 2 min from 1c to pull may have baked things...again.
-Maybe changing several variables over prior roasts (full manual temp, drum speed, and angle of machine) may not have been a good idea
-My roasting skills suck
-I should probably get Artisan but it'll be later rather than sooner due to time constraints with work and I don't have a computer anywhere near where I roast

Brian
I don't have this coffee (sold out!) but I have some experience with the Behmor and a lot of growing pains. I like to read these threads regardless as there is a ton of useful info.

Comments on controlling the heating: (i) Let it go full out at the start (yellowing on the behmor is already terribly slow so I wouldn't reduce that) but then drop to p4 around the 5 minute mark (on the 1lb setting). (ii) try to reduce your preheating to around 1:45m instead of up to the 200. Someone recommended the 200 charge temp awhile back and there have been a huuge influx of overheating posts :lol:. preheating shouldn't be such a huge factor with a smaller charge.

The introduction of the plus panel really screwed up my roasting as I kept dropping temp during FC so much and this led to less than satisfactory results. Ill drop to p4 when 1C starts to roll but I've resisted going lower and my results have improved. I would just focus on getting a feel for the machine before you worry about probes. The behmor is wildly inconsistent by machine so you need to learn how yours works best.

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yakster
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#83: Post by yakster »

brianl wrote:The introduction of the plus panel really screwed up my roasting as I kept dropping temp during FC so much and this led to less than satisfactory results. Ill drop to p4 when 1C starts to roll but I've resisted going lower and my results have improved.
This resonates with me. Before the plus upgrade I would crack open the door at first crack and I'd see the temps drop and get good roasts, but after upgrading to the plus board if I manually dropped the temps during first crack without opening the door the results were very different. I think this is because with the door dance you are still heating the beans but there's more airflow and the overall temps in the chamber is lower but when you drop the temps with the door closed with the plus board you are cutting off the heat radiating directly on the beans and stalling first crack.

Now, with the plus board, I minimize any temp drop during first crack, aiming just to make sure that first crack is under control and doesn't get away from me.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272

brianmch

#84: Post by brianmch »

Thx for the Behmor insight BrianL and Yakster. Really appreciated.

I read through the experiment posted on the Sweet Marias site where they did 3 roasts to stretch drying, 1c, then time after 1c and assessed sweetness, body, and acidity for each of the 4 roasts in each experiment using a Rwanda. I KNOW that different beans might behave differently.

I'm not sure how to tell when the drying stage is occurring. The light is pretty weak and I'm not really able to differentiate the change or timing of smell yet.

Also, after reading both of your posts, I might be doing something wrong with the temp 1C. It took 2min in my last roast with this Kenyan as I dropped heat to P4 and I only ran it 30sec after 1C was over as I was fearing 2C. I'm thinking 2min is too long a time for 1C to go and I might be stalling my roast.

brianl

#85: Post by brianl replying to brianmch »

The sweet marias topic was for a full blown roaster I think. The Behmor plays by its own rules. The drying stage you can only really tell by temperature as sight isn't always the best (however, you should be able to notice when the color changes?). The 1st crack depends on how you measure it (I wait for the third pop to start and wait 3 seconds without a pop to finish will the rolling somewhere in the middle) and I don't think im ever under 2m. I don't think you really have to worry about stalling the roast unless you're going to p1-3 for extended times. Keep in mind that after 1st crack, your rate of rise is supposed to decrease and in an ideal world it would hit zero right when you finish (however you don't want this to turn negative).

Sounds like you're telling yourself behmor ghost stories and are getting skiddish involving 2nd crack. It's not the end of the world but hitting it will help you determine how your machine runs and you can cut back from there.

brianmch

#86: Post by brianmch replying to brianl »

Yes BrianL, the SM topic was performed on a full roaster. I'm under no illusion the Behmor is _that_ sort of thing but its more of a full roaster than some other things. I just thought that some of those general theories might apply.

It's good to hear that you're generally not under 2min for the duration of 1c.

Yes, skittish about 2C...I think over-roasted coffee is equivalent to a cup of liquid Ebola! :lol:

I've had enough greasy coffee to know I don't like it. I'm pretty sure I've never had what I consider to be good coffee that's gotten into 2nd crack. I'd probably just throw it away if I let a roast get to C2 not waste my time making it. Or, I'd give it to my buddy in a Kingsford sack who thinks its the sh*t. Blech. Closed minded, yes Yoda says while scractching chin.

Seems like many are skittish about stalling the roast and that's got me nervous too. Yikes! Sounds like deer piss on the under-roasted side.

I'm NOT a full-on 3rd waver but I've had some really, really good coffee's with florals, fruits, sugars, and the like. Not under the illusion I can reproduce that here, but I am pretty certain some glimpse of that is achievable.

brianl

#87: Post by brianl »

brianmch wrote: Seems like many are skittish about stalling the roast and that's got me nervous too. Yikes! Sounds like deer piss on the under-roasted side.

I'm NOT a full-on 3rd waver but I've had some really, really good coffee's with florals, fruits, sugars, and the like. Not under the illusion I can reproduce that here, but I am pretty certain some glimpse of that is achievable.
Fruits sugars and the like can be achieved in the fc fc+ range and aren't typically strong in light roasts based on my experience. I just roasted some Tanzanian to fc+ and I'm getting chocolate covered tropical fruit. Super sweet and fruity.

I love light roasts but many are undeveloped. I've gotten great results at 2c as well. You don't have to worry about it tasting too dark until you have a rolling second crack. More people are skittish about underdevelopment then over roasting.

brianmch

#88: Post by brianmch »

So what are you getting with this Kenya and how far are you going?

chaffshaker

#89: Post by chaffshaker »

brianl wrote:I love light roasts but many are undeveloped. I've gotten great results at 2c as well. You don't have to worry about it tasting too dark until you have a rolling second crack. More people are skittish about underdevelopment then over roasting.
This resonates with me.

When I first started roasting, I was chasing the light roasts I loved from 3rd wave roasters - trying to achieve a bare city roast just out of 1c. The results, for longer than I care to admit, were underdeveloped roasts that occasionally almost hung up my grinder on the way to being brewed into a poor, grassy cup. I started to get better, though I would argue that I baked my roasts on the way to a developed 1c, and then finally stumbled across a bunch of forum postings that opened my eyes to all the things I could do better.

I'm still at the base of a long learning curve, but I'm much more afraid of an underdeveloped roast than I am of a properly developed roast that just hits 2c. I do this regularly, with the first pops of 2c occurring in the cooling tray, and I can be very pleased with the results.

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johnny4lsu

#90: Post by johnny4lsu »

I got to so a 5th roast before me and my family left for vacation. I'll try to post the profile soon. It did not go as planned at all.

On another note, I got to meet the great David with Bodka coffee while passing through Alabama. He even gave me a big bag of roasted coffee. Coffee is awesome. It brings people together from across the globe.